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Warwickshire v Essex
#61
EB - there lies a major surprise. Before the season started having Hain Bell Trott and Westwood in top 5 looked promising even if shortcomings elsewhere were apparent. But Westwood's surprise retirement along with Bell's and Hain's loss of form really meant there has been no area where we have shone.

We can only hope the young ones continue their development and do us proud next season.
LE - aka John
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#62
Interview with Ashley here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12d5hSzU...xVmYB09s-6
He promises more changes.
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#63
....and in his Cricinfo article, George says:
"At the end of the 2018 season around £1.2m worth of players (judged in terms of their annual salaries) are out of contract at Edgbaston. It seems, therefore, inevitable that further raids on other counties will result in more new faces.

In the longer-term, though, they need to improve their record of identifying and developing local talent. Not to have produced a capped specialist batsman since Ian Westwood (capped in 2008 and now retired) or a bowler since Chris Woakes(2009) is a damning indictment of their system. They could do a lot worse than reflect on how Essex and, not so far away, Worcestershire, manage and learn the lessons."
Keep up-to-date with County Cricket at http://deepextracover.com/
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#64
(15-09-2017, 10:28 AM)Exiled Bear Wrote:
(15-09-2017, 09:57 AM)Terry Wrote:
(14-09-2017, 09:57 PM)South Coast Bear Wrote: I am rarely lost for words ............. so how about embarrassed, disappointed, drained and yes disgusted, no confidence, low morale and we seem to show no fight, although knowing professional sportsmen I know that is not the case.

I have been proudly watching the Bears since 1961 and this has to be the worse season I can recall, with the worse set of players I can remember. But hang on a minute, some of them are very good cricketers so why have we been so abysmal this season ?

We all knew it was coming following the lack of close season activity, the departures and the fact we were lucky not to go down last season, so why didn't the off the field professionals and Edgbaston PLC foresee it also ?

But I love Warwickshire County Cricket Club, I will proudly wear my hat and team shirt on my upcoming holiday to the far east, I am too old to change and already looking forward to better next season .............. it cannot be as bad as this !!

In conclusion (well almost) ...........before I retired I had twelve years running a professional Football League Club and if we had ever had a season like this our fans would have crucified us, fortunately we didn't and so they didn't. However, fortunately cricket fans are not like that and I am proud with the restraint shown by the members and this forum as debacle followed debacle all summer.

We will return and so will I, although I cannot wait for the nightmare that has been this season to be over.

To be fair, management did take action at the end of last season by moving Dougie on.  Ashley didn't arrive until January so there was little scope then to start signing or sacking players.  Over the last couple of months (too late, as we know) there has been a lot of movement in and out; and at last some of the young players such as Lamb, Pollock, Singh, Thomason have started to come through.

If you have been following the Bears since 1961, you will probably remember 1981 and 1982 when we finished bottom of all 17 counties for two consecutive seasons.  I think I'm right in saying that the bowlers averaged 45 runs per wicket over those two seasons.

Having said all of that, I totally agree that the current situation is embarrassing and upsetting.  I went to Taunton yesterday and saw fellow relegation strugglers Somerset battling really hard to beat Lancashire -  a fiercely fought contest, as First Division cricket should be, not abject surrender.

Agreed. I don't think Ashley can be blamed for this - the rot had started to set in long before he arrived, and I think the green shoots of recovery are now beginning to show (although not in this performance, but the side was already effectively relegated). And to be fair, if you looked at our top order which at the start of the season included Hain, Bell, Trott and Westwood - on paper it doesn't look too bad. I'm not sure many could have foreseen just how dramatically Bell and Hain would lose form. Let's hope they get it back next season.
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#65
(15-09-2017, 12:03 PM)South Coast Bear Wrote:
(15-09-2017, 10:28 AM)Exiled Bear Wrote:
(15-09-2017, 09:57 AM)Terry Wrote:
(14-09-2017, 09:57 PM)South Coast Bear Wrote: I am rarely lost for words ............. so how about embarrassed, disappointed, drained and yes disgusted, no confidence, low morale and we seem to show no fight, although knowing professional sportsmen I know that is not the case.

I have been proudly watching the Bears since 1961 and this has to be the worse season I can recall, with the worse set of players I can remember. But hang on a minute, some of them are very good cricketers so why have we been so abysmal this season ?

We all knew it was coming following the lack of close season activity, the departures and the fact we were lucky not to go down last season, so why didn't the off the field professionals and Edgbaston PLC foresee it also ?

But I love Warwickshire County Cricket Club, I will proudly wear my hat and team shirt on my upcoming holiday to the far east, I am too old to change and already looking forward to better next season .............. it cannot be as bad as this !!

In conclusion (well almost) ...........before I retired I had twelve years running a professional Football League Club and if we had ever had a season like this our fans would have crucified us, fortunately we didn't and so they didn't. However, fortunately cricket fans are not like that and I am proud with the restraint shown by the members and this forum as debacle followed debacle all summer.

We will return and so will I, although I cannot wait for the nightmare that has been this season to be over.

To be fair, management did take action at the end of last season by moving Dougie on.  Ashley didn't arrive until January so there was little scope then to start signing or sacking players.  Over the last couple of months (too late, as we know) there has been a lot of movement in and out; and at last some of the young players such as Lamb, Pollock, Singh, Thomason have started to come through.

If you have been following the Bears since 1961, you will probably remember 1981 and 1982 when we finished bottom of all 17 counties for two consecutive seasons.  I think I'm right in saying that the bowlers averaged 45 runs per wicket over those two seasons.

Having said all of that, I totally agree that the current situation is embarrassing and upsetting.  I went to Taunton yesterday and saw fellow relegation strugglers Somerset battling really hard to beat Lancashire -  a fiercely fought contest, as First Division cricket should be, not abject surrender.

Agreed. I don't think Ashley can be blamed for this - the rot had started to set in long before he arrived, and I think the green shoots of recovery are now beginning to show (although not in this performance, but the side was already effectively relegated). And to be fair, if you looked at our top order which at the start of the season included Hain, Bell, Trott and Westwood - on paper it doesn't look too bad. I'm not sure many could have foreseen just how dramatically Bell and Hain would lose form. Let's hope they get it back next season.

All good points and well expressed, I do remember 1981 and 82, but can never remember us being as abysmal in all departments as this season (perhaps my memory is clouded in the mists of time). I agree there are some green shoots of recovery becoming to sprout and they will be better looked after in division two, but I cannot understand quite how we have reached this point.

We must all stick together and stand by Warwickshire County Cricket Club, I am sure will fully intend to. Fortunately cricket is not football and its fans do not react to success and failure as football fans, this thread has had a cathartic effect and although I can't wait for this season to end ........ roll on season 2018 and to better times.
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#66
I did like George's comments concerning our coaching staff:

"To that end, good may come of their reverse. Blaming one individual - be it Ian Bell or Jim Troughton or Ashley Giles - would be as meaningless and simplistic as it was last year when Dougie Brown (and before him, Varun Chopra) was made a scapegoat for a season that might now be considered a harbinger for this one. The culture, the systems, the pathway need to change. In Giles they have the right man for the job - though it does seem fair to ask questions of a cosy-looking coaching staff that is stuffed with recently-retired Warwickshire players - but it won't be quick. The route out of Division Two looks steep and slippery."

Felt this for a long time and see nothing in Frost, Richardson or Troughton to fill me with any sense of optimism from a coaching perspective. I am sure they are all lovely blokes, but that's not what brings the success.
Paul fondled my onion bags.
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parkfield bear
#67
Earlier in the year I posted that I was sure we were going down but that it would be good to show some fight and go down like Hull rather than like Sunderland.

Sadly, we're going down like Villa.
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#68
(15-09-2017, 09:44 AM)Lilly Wrote:
(15-09-2017, 07:38 AM)narsty simon Wrote:
(14-09-2017, 10:32 PM)The Good Mugabe Wrote: Current championship batting averages

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/county-cha...tournament

Two positives, the consistency of Trotty, averaging 40 when all around hin was collapsing is good.

Also the performances of Matt Lamb, who has come into the side and, while not making a century, has contributed solidly, averaging just below 30, while usually coming in when the side was in the middle of a major collapse.  Hopefully next season he can come in when the side is in a srong position and is able to play his naturally attacking game.

Did you see Lamb's dismissal yesterday?

It was certainly 'attacking' as TGM says he plays. I find it hard to overly blame the lad given the game situation and the more senior players had themselves completely tossed it off.

Still a poor shot to play in those circumstances
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#69
(15-09-2017, 11:28 AM)Terry Wrote: ....and in his Cricinfo article, George says:
"At the end of the 2018 season around £1.2m worth of players (judged in terms of their annual salaries) are out of contract at Edgbaston. It seems, therefore, inevitable that further raids on other counties will result in more new faces.

In the longer-term, though, they need to improve their record of identifying and developing local talent. Not to have produced a capped specialist batsman since Ian Westwood (capped in 2008 and now retired) or a bowler since Chris Woakes(2009) is a damning indictment of their system. They could do a lot worse than reflect on how Essex and, not so far away, Worcestershire, manage and learn the lessons."

That is a sad indictment on our development of young players.  although we did have one outstanding young player as well who has gone on to be a great success at international level but that was 11 years ago. So were were producing players but not in this decade. I think Ashley is partly to blame for this with the way he built the team last time around, relying on imports rather than giving youth its chance. But maybe they weren't good enough. Maybe some of the younger players, this time around will go on to have good careers. Whatever, this time we have to  build a balanced squad, one that is sustainable.

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#70
(15-09-2017, 12:21 PM)Lilly Wrote: I did like George's comments concerning our coaching staff:

"To that end, good may come of their reverse. Blaming one individual - be it Ian Bell or Jim Troughton or Ashley Giles - would be as meaningless and simplistic as it was last year when Dougie Brown (and before him, Varun Chopra) was made a scapegoat for a season that might now be considered a harbinger for this one. The culture, the systems, the pathway need to change. In Giles they have the right man for the job - though it does seem fair to ask questions of a cosy-looking coaching staff that is stuffed with recently-retired Warwickshire players - but it won't be quick. The route out of Division Two looks steep and slippery."

Felt this for a long time and see nothing in Frost, Richardson or Troughton to fill me with any sense of optimism from a coaching perspective. I am sure they are all lovely blokes, but that's not what brings the success.

I agree with what you say regarding Frost and Richardson. Jury out regarding Troughton as he has not held the position long enough to be given a fair chance. Reading between the lines of George's article I feel Ashley may well be making some changes come October.
LE - aka John
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#71
Agreed Ashley is partly to blame for the lack of locally developed players in the side right now. He largely ignored academy players first time around. I remember in 2012 Jeets going off to play for NZ and instead of giving Paul Best, who had done well in previous appearances a chance, he signed Ian Blackwell on loan.

However i maintain he is the right man to rebuild us. Some of this current crop look promising. Lamb, Thomason, Singh and Pollock all have huge potential. Brookes and Banks have done well in 2nd's and England U19's. Panayi looked capable in his appearances. It bodes well.
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#72
Re. Lamb btw.

Odd criticism of him, poorly executed shot yes but the intent and idea was admirable i thought. You can't just let people bowl at you like Mellor did. His innings was an eyesore.
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#73
I think what annoyed me most was the hubris and complacency from the club which dates back a number of years.

In both 2015 and 2016 our form in 4-day cricket in the latter half of those seasons was distinctly worrying.

There were a number of heavy defeats and seemingly little attempt to tackle the obvious problems that were bubbling up.

When Laurie Evans and Varun Chopra walked away at the back end of 2016 the lack of action in finding replacements and the bland statements that followed claiming strength in depth and experience would see us through looked at best hopeful and at worst resigned.

Looking back at the final CCD1 fixture of 2014 -  when we beat Durham by an innings it's instructive to note that 8 of the players that finished that game started the opening match of 2017 at the Oval.

I need hardly remind you that of those 8 players - 6 were over already over 30 on 7th April 2017. The other 2 common to both sides were Sam Hain and OHD.

Sam has a major technical flaw in his batting that has been there for 2 years now. And nobody at Edgbaston seems able or wiling to help hiom put it right. OHD is at best, a useful white ball squad player.

But overall the lack of evolution in an already ageing side was embedding a problem that was bound, at some point, to backfire spectacularly.

That overall stagnation and inevitable decline was there for all to see. Yet seemingly what was apparent to many of us passed the coaching team by.

It's taken some emergency work from Ashley to prevent the whole season going into freefall. Had it not been for the T20 revival that he managed to instigate we would have suffered a total humiliation in all formats.

I am extremely angry as the season draws to a close. Mine is not a football-style knee-jerk reaction but a considered response to failings at all levels of the club from the CEO down.

I don't think - even with the additions of Hose and Rhodes - that we have a side capable of immediate promotion and subsequent consolidation.

In my opinion we are short 2 bowlers, a wicket-keeper and an experienced reliable batsman. The cosy coaching set-up that GD alluded to and many of us have pointed to over the last few months also needs prompt attention.
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Paul
#74
"In the longer-term, though, they need to improve their record of identifying and developing local talent. Not to have produced a capped specialist batsman since Ian Westwood (capped in 2008 and now retired) or a bowler since Chris Woakes(2009) is a damning indictment of their system. They could do a lot worse than reflect on how Essex and, not so far away, Worcestershire, manage and learn the lessons."

Tha really is a searing indictment of youth development at this club; to not be able to produce a capped player in 8 years when we have the major centres of Birmingham, Coventry and effectively Wolverhampton in our catchment area is frankly a disgrace.

As others have said, the restraint that the membership have shown in the face of the ongoing calamity is frankly exemplorary.
Bears fan, Wolves fan, blood red Socialist, a not so vital statistician; what a collection...
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#75
(15-09-2017, 04:32 PM)DaveC Wrote: I think what annoyed me most was the hubris and complacency from the club which dates back a number of years.

In both 2015 and 2016 our form in 4-day cricket in the latter half of those seasons was distinctly worrying.

There were a number of heavy defeats and seemingly little attempt to tackle the obvious problems that were bubbling up.

When Laurie Evans and Varun Chopra walked away at the back end of 2016 the lack of action in finding replacements and the bland statements that followed claiming strength in depth and experience would see us through looked at best hopeful and at worst resigned.

Looking back at the final CCD1 fixture of 2014 -  when we beat Durham by an innings it's instructive to note that 8 of the players that finished that game started the opening match of 2017 at the Oval.

I need hardly remind you that of those 8 players - 6 were over already over 30 on 7th April 2017. The other 2 common to both sides were Sam Hain and OHD.

Sam has a major technical flaw in his batting that has been there for 2 years now. And nobody at Edgbaston seems able or wiling to help hiom put it right. OHD is at best, a useful white ball squad player.

But overall the lack of evolution in an already ageing side was embedding a problem that was bound, at some point, to backfire spectacularly.

That overall stagnation and inevitable decline was there for all to see. Yet seemingly what was apparent to many of us passed the coaching team by.

It's taken some emergency work from Ashley to prevent the whole season going into freefall. Had it not been for the T20 revival that he managed to instigate we would have suffered a total humiliation in all formats.

I am extremely angry as the season draws to a close. Mine is not a football-style knee-jerk reaction but a considered response to failings at all levels of the club from the CEO down.

I don't think - even with the additions of Hose and Rhodes - that we have a side capable of immediate promotion and subsequent consolidation.

In my opinion we are short 2 bowlers, a wicket-keeper and an experienced reliable batsman. The cosy coaching set-up that GD alluded to and many of us have pointed to over the last few months also needs prompt attention.

Excellent, difficult to disagree with your observations and I share your anger and also confusion at the lethargy shown by a the club and cricketing management. Your point regarding the problems that Sam Hain has highlights the coaching abilities, or lack of, that we have available at Edgbaston the moment. I have questioned this issue on a number of occasions during the season, would Sam's problem have been dealt with at other counties, I think it probably would have. Sam was a star at 18 and so much was expected by Warwickshire and England, how have we have allowed his progress to slow down, if not grind to a halt, it is at best wasteful. Do I expect Tony Frost to sort out the problem, don't hold your breath. Similarly I have made the point about our bowlers, who has benefited from the efforts of Alan Richardson? Has Barker improved, Wright, OHD, Rankin etc. I can't point to a single bowler and think "he's really benefited from AR's input" in fact I think they have also gone backwards. I don't reserve any judgement on Traughton, I cannot think of a group of players in any sport who have shown with such consistency a total lack of motivation, application and fight throughout an entire season, appalling. The t20 was brief respite but, I am ashamed to say, I'm glad that we didn't win it because that would have deflected the failings of the season in the same way that our success at Lords last year clouded the failings of the previous unacceptable year.
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#76
Plenty of comments about Sam Hain's problems. It is an indictment of the management that the solution is to shove him in as an opener against the Champions elect. Predictable failure and even less confidence going forward.
Looking in from the outside it just seems that for the younger players, a couple of failures sees them out of the team. Whereas some of the senior pros appear undroppable.
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Leicester Exile
#77
The team in the early 1980's was weak in bowling and we finished bottom in successive seasons.. In 1981 we had the same number of batting points as the champions and in 1982 only one point less than the champions. The following season we recruited Gifford and Old, they took 166 wickets and we won 10 matches and finished 5th. The current team are equally poor in batting and bowling and in my view are the worst in the time i have been watching Warwickshire. It is difficult to see the present team's problems being solved as easily.
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