Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Hampshire Away
(05-06-2017, 06:10 PM)South Coast Bear Wrote:
(05-06-2017, 05:21 PM)DaveC Wrote:
(05-06-2017, 04:56 PM)South Coast Bear Wrote: Hain needs time in the middle, a month or so in the2s would benefit both the club and him long term


Hain is brilliant with the white ball and cannot cope with the red ball, he was the same last year apart from the odd innings, there is an obvious difference but surely not that much.

Why did we chose not to bring in any new recruits (apart from an injured young bowler) in the close season after losing a couple of proven players ?

We were lucky not to go down last season and when that squad was weakened we did not bring anyone new in, is there any surprise we are as dire as we are ?

Did we spend our money on the new coaching set up and while I am at what has happened with the coaching if this is the best we have ?

When we are beaten comprehensively in a dire 50 qualification (finishing bottom) by Leicestershire, Worcestershire, Northants etc we know we are in trouble.

No players are coming though the academy, I am far from convinced by the odd one they throw in (although Singh did well against Hampshire), what has happened our schools programme and young player recruitment, which was always so good ?

What has happened to our recruitment at first team level ?



Something appears drastically wrong somewhere, answers to the obvious questions we are all asking are required.

This is going to be a long hard season .......... but I have watched Warwickshire since 1960 and will not give up on them now, once a Bear always a Bear (I support Warwickshire in the T20, not Birmingham Bears), still shocked from sitting through the first three days of the Hampshire fiasco.

Great post SCB.

Bears' current record in all cricket in 2017 reads P13 W2 D2 L9

Reading the pre-season predictions I was struck by what looked like undue optimism on the part of many.

It seemed to me obvious that an ageing, under-performing squad in 2016 was unlikely to fare any better in 2017, given no additions from outside and little obvious internal talent knocking on the door - Messrs Thornton and Singh excepted. When we entered the first game of the season with an opening pair of Porterfield and Mellor, it was obvious something was badly wrong.

The cosy consensus of former players in senior coaching positions now augmented by the return of KOS has for me, compounded the issues.

It's not just the defeats. It's the way that younger, hungrier sides are ripping us to pieces.

Some of our opponents - amongst them counties who certain contributors feel should not even be competing at this level - have shredded our bowling attack in turn demolishing their own decades old batting records.

Our batting - apart from the odd honourable exception - looks flaccid and powerless. As for the captaincy - surely it's for the best that Ian steps down for the moment. Although it's difficult to see who else could do the job - I for one would not want to land that on Trotty.

And to add insult to injury - Edgbaston is in lock-down and no first class or List A cricket is being played anywhere in the county for 6 weeks.

Difficult to see Messrs Troughton, Richardson and Frost surviving beyond the end of this season. Still at least we'll be able to see how we compare the regularly disparaged wooden spoon merchants in 2018!

Agree totally Dave C, as for the Edgbaston lock-down, why not take a game out to the County ......... I was hooked by watching in Nuneaton and Coventry, since then they have played at other grounds, if it is dry I will be watching Surrey at Guildford on Thursday (a small club ground with imported tented facilities and seats), why do other Counties move around and we no longer do ?

Yes its a great shame we don't anymore.  I really enjoyed the games we played at stratford.

Reply
Ah yes, a positive thought at last. Next year we could be playing at Arundel, Tunbridge Wells, Chesterfield, Colwyn Bay .....
Reply
(06-06-2017, 07:45 AM)GrizzlyBear Wrote: Ah yes, a positive thought at last. Next year we could be playing at Arundel, Tunbridge Wells, Chesterfield, Colwyn Bay .....

....and I will get maybe two "home" matches v Gloucestershire and perhaps Somerset - maybe Cheltenham, which would be great.
Keep up-to-date with County Cricket at http://deepextracover.com/
Reply
The table below shows the current championship batting figures, and the current average excluding the players highest score, which gives a more accurate picture of a players regular batting performance.

Warwickshire batting averages Average minus Highest Innings
Player Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s Inns Runs Ave Diff
IJL Trott 5 9 0 477 175 53.00 942 50.63 3 0 3 60 3 8 302 37.75 -15.25
KHD Barker 5 9 3 302 70 50.33 587 51.44 0 4 1 47 0 8 232 46.40 -3.93
IJ Westwood 3 5 0 231 153 46.20 411 56.2 1 1 0 31 2 4 78 19.50 -26.70
IR Bell 5 9 0 288 99 32.00 468 61.53 0 3 1 41 0 8 189 23.63 -8.38
JS Patel 4 7 1 156 49 26.00 206 75.72 0 0 1 21 4 6 107 21.40 -4.60
CJC Wright 3 6 2 91 36 22.75 150 60.66 0 0 0 13 0 5 55 18.33 -4.42
WTS Porterfield 3 6 0 133 45 22.16 324 41.04 0 0 0 18 0 5 88 17.60 -4.56
TR Ambrose 5 9 0 186 85 20.66 387 48.06 0 2 2 25 1 8 101 12.63 -8.04
ARI Umeed 2 3 0 45 24 15.00 140 32.14 0 0 0 4 0 2 21 10.50 -4.50
R Clarke 5 9 0 131 57 14.55 266 49.24 0 1 2 18 3 8 74 9.25 -5.30
AJ Mellor 2 4 0 45 18 11.25 134 33.58 0 0 1 7 0 3 27 9.00 -2.25
A Javid 1 2 0 22 14 11.00 88 25 0 0 0 1 0 1 8 8.00 -3.00
OJ Hannon-Dalby 3 5 2 31 12 10.33 132 23.48 0 0 0 5 0 4 19 9.50 -0.83
GT Thornton 2 3 1 19 10 9.50 68 27.94 0 0 0 2 0 2 9 9.00 -0.50
SR Hain 4 7 0 59 39 8.42 153 38.56 0 0 1 7 0 6 20 3.33 -5.09
Sukhjit Singh 2 3 1 16 16 8.00 64 25 0 0 2 2 0 2 0 0.00 -8.00
WB Rankin 1 2 0 8 4 4.00 34 23.52 0 0 0 1 0 1 4 4.00 0.00
While Robert may be bad, Robert is not all Mugabe's.
There are GOOD Mugabe's
It is Warwickshire County Cricket Club!
Reply
The averages make depressing reading.
"Highlights" from yesterday here:
https://warwickshireccc.com/news/report-...VY,IXU4L,1
I don't wish to bang on about it (well, maybe I do) but look at how Sam Hain gets out.  With his backlift towards gully, he's almost bound to play across the line and he's either going to edge or get trapped lbw.  Maybe something for the batting coach to help get sorted.
Keep up-to-date with County Cricket at http://deepextracover.com/
Reply
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/40154237

Quote:Bears captain Ian Bell told BBC Coventry & Warwickshire:

"We gave ourselves a lot to do. We allowed Hampshire to get away too easily. We should have got 350 in the first innings and restricted them to 400.


"It is not the first time this year that has happened. We know this team needs to learn quick. Division One is ruthless. We are fighting at the minute and it looks very difficult for us.

"I asked the guys to keep fighting and at times we fought really hard. I hope I can continue to take 11 guys out who want to fight for Warwickshire and want to take this club forward."

Reading between the lines this sounds as though either the captain does not have the team he wants or that he has - in football parlance - "lost the dressing room".

Very worrying.
Reply
(06-06-2017, 11:45 AM)Terry Wrote: The averages make depressing reading.
"Highlights" from yesterday here:
https://warwickshireccc.com/news/report-...VY,IXU4L,1
I don't wish to bang on about it (well, maybe I do) but look at how Sam Hain gets out.  With his backlift towards gully, he's almost bound to play across the line and he's either going to edge or get trapped lbw.  Maybe something for the batting coach to help get sorted.

Terry, if you have spotted the problem you would think the batting coach would have spotted it long ago and worked on it.
LE - aka John
Reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Leicester Exile's post:
Bald Reynard
How do people here suggest we move forwards? What changes, if any, would you make to the team for the next game?

Do we accept that relegation is probable and go into a full "rebuild" mode, so the young players have had experience before pushing for promotion next season?

Should there be changes to the coaching staff?

Do we have the right person as captain? & if not, who should it be?

I look forward to reading peoples views, and the reasons for forming that opinion.
While Robert may be bad, Robert is not all Mugabe's.
There are GOOD Mugabe's
It is Warwickshire County Cricket Club!
Reply
At the start of the season I thought that relegation was highly likely, I now think it is certain. This situation hasn't happened overnight, it's been coming for at least a couple of years, so it won't get fixed by changing the team or the captain. There's something not right at the club and I don't think it is just about the eleven we put out on the pitch. Someone needs to get the drains up and work out what is wrong. The KoS would appear to be ideally placed to do that.

Our best aspiration this year is perhaps that we should go down like Hull and not like Sunderland. Let's play some decent cricket and hope we win a game or maybe two. In other words, let's be the side that made Somerset follow on and not the side that lost six wickets in an hour on a flat pitch. Mind you, the fates can be cruel at times - had it not been for Trotty's absence (which couldn't be helped) we wouldn't have collapsed like that, we would have drawn the game and we wouldn't be so antsy about the rest of the season.
Reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes GrizzlyBear's post:
Bald Reynard
You only have to look at the table to realise that a couple of wins would make a massive difference.  But what the table does show is that Somerset and Warwickshire have lost six matches (three each) whereas the other six teams have only lost three matches between them.  That's a massive difference.
From the interview I did with him, it's pretty clear that Neil Snowball is aware of how deep-seated the problem is and that it may take time to resolve it.  I also think that his action in moving Dougie on at the end of last year when we had just won a trophy suggests that if he thinks that the current people aren't up to sorting things, action will follow.
My guess would be that both Alan Richardson and Tony Frost must be under the microscope.  Alan seems a really nice guy.  Tony may be too but I don't know him.  But whether they are making the kind of difference they should be must be open to question.
As for team selection, I think that Jim and Ian have to make some judgments as to which of the younger players really have the ability to make it.  I am disappointed that Ateeq hasn't established a place in the batting line-up and that Josh Poysden hasn't been given his chance.  But Josh's non-selection is down to the rise of Sunny Singh, which is great.  As for Andy Umeed, I'm not sure.  At Taunton I thought he looked sound and well organised.  But at Southampton, he seemed to sink into strokelessness, a bit like Mark Ramprakash used to do in Test cricket.  The difference is that Andy wasn't facing Curtly Ambrose.
The quicker bowlers haven't really delivered this year. Maybe Olly Stone is the saviour but we shouldn't expect too much too soon.
Keep up-to-date with County Cricket at http://deepextracover.com/
Reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Terry's post:
Bald Reynard
(07-06-2017, 05:19 AM)The Good Mugabe Wrote: How do people here suggest we move forwards?  What changes, if any, would you make to the team for the next game?

Do we accept that relegation is probable and go into a full "rebuild" mode, so the young players have had experience before pushing for promotion next season?

Should there be changes to the coaching staff?

Do we have the right person as captain? & if not, who should it be?

I look forward to reading peoples views, and the reasons for forming that opinion.

Sadly I find it nigh on impossible to answer your post TGM as I really do not know what is going on behind the scenes and quite where the problems lie. 

From the outside looking in, I would question the coaching set up and argue that we require new batting and bowling coaches as our bowling standards, which were always the benchmark for our success, have declined dramatically under Richardson and I fail to see what Frost has by way of qualification for being a batting coach for a county like ours, other than him being a likable figure and a former Bear.

Troughton I am unsure on. Again, when appointed, I failed to see what he had by way of qualification to be our head coach other than being a former captain of ours. I was all for the return of Giles and remain so, but I was hoping that his return would be to be more involved in the coaching of the first team as was his previous capacity with us, but I am assuming he would not have left Lancs on that basis.

Other than the coaching set up, it would be key to find out what the mindset of the players is currently and, if there is disenchantment behind the scenes which it appears there, find out the root of that and quite what it would take to get the players to find that joy again that enables them to perform to their potential. Of course in an ideal worlds, players are paid to perform, but they are human beings as well and, as with any job, if you are unhappy you will not be performing to your maximum.

I guess for me, the coaching set up would be my starting point. We can't change an entire squad during a season, it will take a number of seasons to overhaul this squad, but we can start by getting the right set up in place to kick start the older players on whom we now have to rely and give the youngsters we have to bring into the team the best platform and coaching to mould them in to first teamers for years to come. Sam Hain in particular needs a batting coach who will nurture his incredible talent before it is too late for him.
Paul fondled my onion bags.
Reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Lilly's post:
Bald Reynard
(07-06-2017, 10:01 AM)Lilly Wrote:
(07-06-2017, 05:19 AM)The Good Mugabe Wrote: How do people here suggest we move forwards?  What changes, if any, would you make to the team for the next game?

Do we accept that relegation is probable and go into a full "rebuild" mode, so the young players have had experience before pushing for promotion next season?

Should there be changes to the coaching staff?

Do we have the right person as captain? & if not, who should it be?

I look forward to reading peoples views, and the reasons for forming that opinion.

Sadly I find it nigh on impossible to answer your post TGM as I really do not know what is going on behind the scenes and quite where the problems lie. 

From the outside looking in, I would question the coaching set up and argue that we require new batting and bowling coaches as our bowling standards, which were always the benchmark for our success, have declined dramatically under Richardson and I fail to see what Frost has by way of qualification for being a batting coach for a county like ours, other than him being a likable figure and a former Bear.

Troughton I am unsure on. Again, when appointed, I failed to see what he had by way of qualification to be our head coach other than being a former captain of ours. I was all for the return of Giles and remain so, but I was hoping that his return would be to be more involved in the coaching of the first team as was his previous capacity with us, but I am assuming he would not have left Lancs on that basis.

Other than the coaching set up, it would be key to find out what the mindset of the players is currently and, if there is disenchantment behind the scenes which it appears there, find out the root of that and quite what it would take to get the players to find that joy again that enables them to perform to their potential. Of course in an ideal worlds, players are paid to perform, but they are human beings as well and, as with any job, if you are unhappy you will not be performing to your maximum.

I guess for me, the coaching set up would be my starting point. We can't change an entire squad during a season, it will take a number of seasons to overhaul this squad, but we can start by getting the right set up in place to kick start the older players on whom we now have to rely and give the youngsters we have to bring into the team the best platform and coaching to mould them in to first teamers for years to come. Sam Hain in particular needs a batting coach who will nurture his incredible talent before it is too late for him.

Completely agree with all you've said, Lilly.  The Coaching is key - it needs to be sorted - now, not at the end of the season.  Richardson and Frost have to be moved aside - if not sacked altogether (which perhaps is a bit harsh), then given new roles.  Frosty could go back to his (proper) Groundsman job and Alan R could move to the Academy.  They could bring in a new Batting Coach (if there are any decent ones available at this stage of the season), or Jim T could take it on as additional specific role.  Similarly, Ash could work with the spinners and find a new Coach to work with the seamers.

As for the team, we can take the safe option - just play the older guys (who still need to step up to the mark) - Westwood, Porterfield, Javid (who I'd describe as 'old' now !) and OHD - and 'slowly slide' into Division 2; or go for a more risky route (though one which could work out long term) of mainly playing the (largely unproven) youngsters like Lamb, Banks, Adair, Thornton, Singh, Panayi, Brookes etc - perhaps ahead of the ones who've had chances to shine before (like Umeed, Hain, Mellor, Thomason and Poysden) - and possibly 'crash to Div 2'.  Of course, the youngsters could even 'blossom in Div 1' and keep us up (which is probably more likely than the old guys finding their 'touch') !
Reply
The problem with sacking anyone on the coaching side of things is, who would we get to take over and would anyone really fancy coaching a side with players who are past their best and a lot of youngsters who have yet to prove themselves and who have done nothing whilst been given opportunities. A few coaches might look at this side and think, "No way do I want that job..".
Reply
A worrying statistic is that, in the Championship so far, Warwickshire have scored 26.67 runs per wicket and their opponents have scored 41.23.
Keep up-to-date with County Cricket at http://deepextracover.com/
Reply
I'd actually say the strike rate from our bowlers was of equal, if not greater concern, with only Chris Wright & Grant Thornton, of the specialist bowlers, taking less than ten overs per wicket.

Although Ateeq has been in the squad for a long time, he is only 25, but he has played less than 10 first class games in the past 3 seasons.

I'd suggest the following squad of 15 for the next championship game.

Westwood, Umeed, Trott, Bell, Ateeq, Lamb, Ambrose, Barker, Thornton, Adair, Wright, Singh, Poysden, Patel, Panayi
While Robert may be bad, Robert is not all Mugabe's.
There are GOOD Mugabe's
It is Warwickshire County Cricket Club!
Reply
LMAOif that is anywhere near accurate Mr Davies I will become a Yorkshire member next year
Reply
(08-06-2017, 08:27 PM)narsty simon Wrote: LMAOif that is anywhere near accurate Mr Davies I will become a Yorkshire member next year

A Yorkshire member, Simon?
But Yorkshire members tend to be opinionated and intolerant of others' opinions.  Surely you wouldn't feel at home there?
Keep up-to-date with County Cricket at http://deepextracover.com/
Reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Terry's post:
Harborne Bear, Leicester Exile
They know their cricket though
Reply
(10-06-2017, 01:52 PM)narsty simon Wrote: They know their cricket though
Yes, you can always tell a Yorkshireman - but you can't tell him much.
Keep up-to-date with County Cricket at http://deepextracover.com/
Reply
They say what they like & like what they say
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)