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Leicestershire
#41
Alan Richardson, your undecided? Not sure what it will take to convince you, can you tell me of one area ot the bowling department where there has been progress? One bowler that has noticeably benefitted from the efforts of Alan? All a matter of opinion of course but the bowling department in my opinion is the worst of the lot.
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narsty simon
#42
(03-05-2017, 10:06 AM)Bald Reynard Wrote:
(02-05-2017, 10:24 PM)Rayb Wrote: There are so many questions to be asked about WCCC at the moment and so few answers. Over the past few seasons there appears to be little investment in our squad, not simply financial investment but thought and creativity when making fundamental appointments in management, coaching and player recruitment.
Every position that becomes available seems to go to one of our old boys, that hasn't always happened, we used to be at the forefront when making creative and directional changing appointments. Some were good Woollmer, Donald etc, some not so good Greatbach etc, we were however on the front foot.
I posted on here last season questioning the effectiveness of Dougie Brown as our first team coach and thought naively that he was going to be replaced by Ashley Giles, good move I thought given unfinished and rudely interrupted business. Ashley however was given a seemingly superior role and the first team coaching role was given to Jim Troughton. For the life of me I cannot see what Jim is likely to achieve with an ageing squad supported by cheap imports that quite frankly would have struggled to make a Warwickshire second eleven in not to distant times.
Our batting coach I believe is Tony Frost who a short time ago (and I genuinely do not want to be rude) was looking after our mowers and cutting the outfield. Our bowlers look as poor as I can remember, I seriously don't think we have a genuine strike bowler, Jeetan possible? And yet every county we play from either division seem to have a couple of lads who make us jump about and get a 5 for on debut. Strange because Ashley tells us that it is very difficult and takes an age to secure a worthwhile new signing.
Ian Bell has returned from an illustrious international career that he claimed he had every intention of continuing with, has anything improved since his return to Edgbaston? Has the squad been galvanised? Have the young starlets that we have previously been able to rely upon surged forward? Most importantly has the atmosphere around WCCC improved and our ambitions blossomed? The sort of atmosphere previously experienced at this great club is not just absent, it looks light years away, almost a dream.
Still Edgbaston will probably be sold out for the Champions Trophy, the 20/20 finals day and the Test against the West Indies, who needs a cricket team!

Very good post Rayb (only your 7th ?!).  I agree with virtually all that - except possibly the statement that too many jobs go to our 'old boys'.  That policy is not NECESSARILY a bad one - Club loyalty can be beneficial - but that assumes we have the talent 'in-house', or can find good staff to bring back (I've yet to decide if Alan Richardson is one of those !).  There are many at the Club who don't really deserve promotion - and I might agree with you about Tony Frost (who was a good Groundsman - but had no history as a great Batsman - though I suppose he MAY be a good Coach).  However, we have a long history of 'over promotion' / retainment - Neal Abberley is one that immediately comes to my mind (though I am sure many on here will disagree) - and I do think Dougie was another.  We also have a habit of turning away staff that go on to make good Coaches - Graeme Welch (who did eventually come back - and then went again !) and Allan Donald are the best recent examples.

Was Graeme Welch that good? Didn't do much at Derbyshire and now in second division with Leicestershire.
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#43
(03-05-2017, 02:10 PM)stingray Wrote:
(03-05-2017, 10:06 AM)Bald Reynard Wrote:
(02-05-2017, 10:24 PM)Rayb Wrote: There are so many questions to be asked about WCCC at the moment and so few answers. Over the past few seasons there appears to be little investment in our squad, not simply financial investment but thought and creativity when making fundamental appointments in management, coaching and player recruitment.
Every position that becomes available seems to go to one of our old boys, that hasn't always happened, we used to be at the forefront when making creative and directional changing appointments. Some were good Woollmer, Donald etc, some not so good Greatbach etc, we were however on the front foot.
I posted on here last season questioning the effectiveness of Dougie Brown as our first team coach and thought naively that he was going to be replaced by Ashley Giles, good move I thought given unfinished and rudely interrupted business. Ashley however was given a seemingly superior role and the first team coaching role was given to Jim Troughton. For the life of me I cannot see what Jim is likely to achieve with an ageing squad supported by cheap imports that quite frankly would have struggled to make a Warwickshire second eleven in not to distant times.
Our batting coach I believe is Tony Frost who a short time ago (and I genuinely do not want to be rude) was looking after our mowers and cutting the outfield. Our bowlers look as poor as I can remember, I seriously don't think we have a genuine strike bowler, Jeetan possible? And yet every county we play from either division seem to have a couple of lads who make us jump about and get a 5 for on debut. Strange because Ashley tells us that it is very difficult and takes an age to secure a worthwhile new signing.
Ian Bell has returned from an illustrious international career that he claimed he had every intention of continuing with, has anything improved since his return to Edgbaston? Has the squad been galvanised? Have the young starlets that we have previously been able to rely upon surged forward? Most importantly has the atmosphere around WCCC improved and our ambitions blossomed? The sort of atmosphere previously experienced at this great club is not just absent, it looks light years away, almost a dream.
Still Edgbaston will probably be sold out for the Champions Trophy, the 20/20 finals day and the Test against the West Indies, who needs a cricket team!

Very good post Rayb (only your 7th ?!).  I agree with virtually all that - except possibly the statement that too many jobs go to our 'old boys'.  That policy is not NECESSARILY a bad one - Club loyalty can be beneficial - but that assumes we have the talent 'in-house', or can find good staff to bring back (I've yet to decide if Alan Richardson is one of those !).  There are many at the Club who don't really deserve promotion - and I might agree with you about Tony Frost (who was a good Groundsman - but had no history as a great Batsman - though I suppose he MAY be a good Coach).  However, we have a long history of 'over promotion' / retainment - Neal Abberley is one that immediately comes to my mind (though I am sure many on here will disagree) - and I do think Dougie was another.  We also have a habit of turning away staff that go on to make good Coaches - Graeme Welch (who did eventually come back - and then went again !) and Allan Donald are the best recent examples.

Was Graeme Welch that good? Didn't do much at Derbyshire and now in second division with Leicestershire.


Yes and we all know how rubbish Leicestershire are - oh, hang on a minute......
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#44
Very good bowling coach was Greame Welch,he tried his hand@a bigger job with Derbyshire &failed miserably so it would appear that move suited no1,I agree that Richardson is not the answer, he was walking round the boundary once when our bowlers were struggling I asked him if he had any ideas he said 'no,have you?
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Bald Reynard
#45
I was at the first 2 days of the CC game at the Oval.

Within the first hour it was apparent that both Barker and Wright were well down on pace and neither looked particularly fit to me.

With Clarke misfiring and Jeetan about to join NZ we are down to the bare bones and niether Thornton or Thomason look ready.

I see from George's report that Tom Kohler-Cadmore at Worcester is a potential signing. That would be something. But we need at least 2 batsmen and 2 bowlers if we're even going to compete this year.

Brilliant post btw Rayb - articulates eloquently everything I feel at the moment.
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Bald Reynard
#46
I am starting to ask what is the purpose of a pre-season overseas trip if it didn't confirm / sort out some of above thoughts on the bowlers?
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Bald Reynard
#47
I know absolutely nothing about Kohler-Cadmore and you have to wonder how good he is but frankly all he has to do is be better then OHD and with the greatest respect that shouldn't be beyond him.
Lara, Tendulkar ... Pilling.
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Bald Reynard
#48
The fundamental question is why has everybody else moved on. Whether watching Sky or listening to the BBC on line it seems that the County game is full of energetic, talented young players, probably inspired by the likes of Stokes.
This seems to have completely passed us by as the County have coasted whilst the team gently reaches the top of the hill.
Desperately signing up available players now is a horrible commentary on the County's planning.
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Bald Reynard
#49
Money is perhaps one answer, but it doesnt explain it totally. Good teams over the years slowly remove players 'reaching the top of the hill'... we havent done that. Perhaps the management player relationship has been too cosey with no one wanting to make the hard choices?
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#50
(03-05-2017, 04:00 PM)narsty simon Wrote: Very good bowling coach was Greame Welch,he tried his hand@a bigger job with Derbyshire &failed miserably so it would appear that move suited no1,I agree that Richardson is not the answer, he was walking round the boundary once when our bowlers were struggling I asked him if he had any ideas he said 'no,have you?

Im Back.
i would bring Pop back tomorrow as bowling coach, our bowling looks so laboured this season as if the players are running on empty, i never understood why we brought richardson in in the first place, i hvent seen any improvement in our bowlers, infact i have seen them bowl the worst ever, to give Pop his dues he had to go tova poor cricket side that is never going to be any good, they just dont have the money to do so, i think he is doing a great job at Leicester.
Keep Calm i am a Warwickshire Bear
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Bald Reynard, Leicester Exile
#51
(04-05-2017, 02:19 PM)coolerking Wrote: I know absolutely nothing about Kohler-Cadmore and you have to wonder how good he is but frankly all he has to do is be better then OHD and with the greatest respect that shouldn't be beyond him.

Yes, but Kohler-Cadmore is a batsman, pure and simple, he's listed as a part-time Off Spinner, but never bowls.  He probably would make a better seam bowler than OHD though !
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#52
(05-05-2017, 05:18 AM)littlepete Wrote:
(03-05-2017, 04:00 PM)narsty simon Wrote: Very good bowling coach was Greame Welch,he tried his hand@a bigger job with Derbyshire &failed miserably so it would  appear that move suited no1,I agree that Richardson is not the answer, he was walking round the boundary once when our bowlers were struggling I asked him if he had any ideas he said 'no,have you?

Im Back.
i would bring Pop back tomorrow as bowling coach, our bowling looks so laboured  this season as if the players are running on empty, i never understood why we brought richardson in in the first place, i hvent seen any improvement in our bowlers, infact i have seen them bowl the worst ever, to give Pop his dues he had to go tova poor cricket side that is never going to be any good, they just dont have the money to do so, i think he is doing a great job at Leicester.

Completely agree with you Pete.  I'd bring Pop back.  He did well for us - and was part of the previously successful (Ash) Coaching set up.
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#53
(05-05-2017, 09:53 AM)Bald Reynard Wrote:
(04-05-2017, 02:19 PM)coolerking Wrote: I know absolutely nothing about Kohler-Cadmore and you have to wonder how good he is but frankly all he has to do is be better then OHD and with the greatest respect that shouldn't be beyond him.

Yes, but Kohler-Cadmore is a batsman, pure and simple, he's listed as a part-time Off Spinner, but never bowls.  He probably would make a better seam bowler than OHD though !

I thought that maybe coolerking was commenting on the basis that we needed at least one player with a double-barrelled name to add a bit of class to the scorecard.
Keep up-to-date with County Cricket at http://deepextracover.com/
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#54
(03-05-2017, 01:08 PM)Rayb Wrote: Alan Richardson, your undecided? Not sure what it will take to convince you, can you tell me of one area ot the bowling department where there has been progress? One bowler that has noticeably benefitted from the efforts of Alan? All a matter of opinion of course but the bowling department in my opinion is the worst of the lot.

Josh Posyden.
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#55
Graeme Welch gets another chance to step up:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-crick...MP=OTC-RSS
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