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Warwickshire v Yorkshire
#81
I used chief executive as an example and yes everyone should have their role reviewed and questioned when the club becomes a laughing stock... I think that is reasonable. To sign only 1 player this summer (0 if you count fit players) is shocking....maybe it's because I'm going through this with the Villa but I just cant see how we can make excuses for poorly run clubs/first team squads

The senior team are on high salaries and ask fans to put their hands In their pockets...to question the club after an appalling start which most people could see coming is certainly well within our rights
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#82
What happens now then? Who's to be dropped? Who comes in?

Is Westy fit yet? Mark Adair can't be far away. Lamb? Umeed?
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#83
(16-04-2017, 07:55 PM)greenday28 Wrote: I used chief executive as an example and yes everyone should have their role reviewed and questioned when the club becomes a laughing stock... I think that is reasonable. To sign only 1 player this summer (0 if you count fit players) is shocking....maybe it's because I'm going through this with the Villa but I just cant see how we can make excuses for poorly run clubs/first team squads

The senior team are on high salaries and ask fans to put their hands In their pockets...to question the club after an appalling start which most people could see coming is certainly well within our rights

But who do you mean by senior team - Ashley/ Jim? They've only just started in their roles!!
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#84
I habe not blamed the playing squad or the coach at any point...therere will be a number of people above Ash and Jim...a club the size of Warwickshire will not rely and be managed by a chief executive alone...
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#85
Hands up who thought we would only score under a 100 once this season? Who is looking forward to going to Cardiff Bristol Leicester Derby etc next year?
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#86
I've done my best to sum up how I see things, though I had to have recourse to Jane Fonda, Vladimir Putin and Captain Mainwaring to express everything:
http://deepextracover.com/2017/04/bears-...-to-brink/
Keep up-to-date with County Cricket at http://deepextracover.com/
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#87
A good piece Terry; thanks for sharing. A very gloomy picture all round, I agree, and thrown into sharp contrast by the efforts of other teams.
Lara, Tendulkar ... Pilling.
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#88
Great article Terry.

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#89
C hopra was in the squad of 13 for the game but presumeably Cook took his place
LE - aka John
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#90
If we want to bring on a number of youngsters then 2nd division is the place to be. So a season or two in the mugs' league might not be so disastrous
LE - aka John
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#91
(16-04-2017, 07:39 PM)coolerking Wrote: Maybe he's unfit.  Could be any number of reasons to be fair.

Essex '"last game was broadcast on 5iive sports xtra last Monday, their commentator hinted then that chopra would make way for. Cook
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#92
(16-04-2017, 08:12 PM)Malc Wrote: What happens now then? Who's to be dropped? Who comes in?

Is Westy fit yet? Mark Adair can't be far away. Lamb? Umeed?

Yes, the short term of Friday to deal with - what would we do in Jim's shoes? I think he needs to set the cat amongst the pigeons a little in what we assume is a 'cosy' squad.

1) Westwood, if he's had enough middle time to come in for Mellor. Likeable... but a wicketkeeper. Just Westwood sticking around might allow Trott and Bell some time to relax.

2) Adair, again, if ready should surely to be taking the place of OHD. With a bowling average of 39 and a genuine number 11, surely he needs to be relegated to white ball only. With those stats to top, surely Adair is worth a run in the side bringing some much needed youth in while at least trying to stay up.

3) Is it not time for Barker to bat at 7 and Clarke at 8? I cannot remember Clarke's last contribution. Clarke is undoubtedly a man over the hill in the 4 day game - but excellent for 10 overs and a biff against the white ball. A man going through the motions I feel, but we need him with his ideal replacement in India.

4) I'd be tempted to give Hain one more game, however in a 14 game season his place has to be under threat from any given young batting talent available frankly! Javid maybe leading the way here.

Thoughts? How do we make the best of a dreadful situation?
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#93
(17-04-2017, 08:16 AM)Grasscutter Wrote:
(16-04-2017, 08:12 PM)Malc Wrote: What happens now then? Who's to be dropped? Who comes in?

Is Westy fit yet? Mark Adair can't be far away. Lamb? Umeed?

Yes, the short term of Friday to deal with - what would we do in Jim's shoes? I think he needs to set the cat amongst the pigeons a little in what we assume is a 'cosy' squad.

1) Westwood, if he's had enough middle time to come in for Mellor. Likeable... but a wicketkeeper. Just Westwood sticking around might allow Trott and Bell some time to relax.

2) Adair, again, if ready should surely to be taking the place of OHD. With a bowling average of 39 and a genuine number 11, surely he needs to be relegated to white ball only. With those stats to top, surely Adair is worth a run in the side bringing some much needed youth in while at least trying to stay up.

3) Is it not time for Barker to bat at 7 and Clarke at 8? I cannot remember Clarke's last contribution. Clarke is undoubtedly a man over the hill in the 4 day game - but excellent for 10 overs and a biff against the white ball. A man going through the motions I feel, but we need him with his ideal replacement in India.  

4) I'd be tempted to give Hain one more game, however in a 14 game season his place has to be under threat from any given young batting talent available frankly! Javid maybe leading the way here.

Thoughts? How do we make the best of a dreadful situation?

There are so many sides to this - let's be positive, it's a long season, we've lost to 2 very good teams, returning players will change the situation, Gilo and Jim know what they're doing......or the.....The batting has been dreadful since mid season 2015, Bell scored 600 runs last season and 170+ of those came in the first game, Trott has looked disinterested for 2 years, Hain can't cope with a laterally moving ball, Rikki has lost it.

The dilemma of the young lads - do we put them into a losing team and hope they aren't damaged by it.

And.....I'm convinced things have been sour behind the scenes for 2 years. Has whatever caused that been eradicated.

What would I do? Westy to return, Lamb, Adair and Javid to take Bat/bowling roles. When will Rankin and Stone be ready? Then finally, hope for a bit of luck!
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#94
(16-04-2017, 09:22 PM)Terry Wrote: I've done my best to sum up how I see things, though I had to have recourse to Jane Fonda, Vladimir Putin and Captain Mainwaring to express everything:
http://deepextracover.com/2017/04/bears-...-to-brink/


Great article as ever Terry, although one Dad's Army quote was missing - sadly not Corporal Jones' famous 'don't panic' line but Private Fraser's lament which seems more apt even at this early stage of the season - 'we're doomed'! undefined
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#95
(17-04-2017, 09:42 AM)Harborne Bear Wrote:
(16-04-2017, 09:22 PM)Terry Wrote: I've done my best to sum up how I see things, though I had to have recourse to Jane Fonda, Vladimir Putin and Captain Mainwaring to express everything:
http://deepextracover.com/2017/04/bears-...-to-brink/


Great article as ever Terry, although one Dad's Army quote was missing - sadly not Corporal Jones' famous 'don't panic' line but Private Fraser's lament which seems more apt even at this early stage of the season - 'we're doomed'! undefined

I got that in early here - see post number 13 on the Surrey v Warwickshire thread.  But I agree it does seem even more appropriate now.
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#96
It is only Clarke's bowling that is keeping him in the side and that was poor in this current game. When he first came here he was a batsman who bowled a little and took his first ever 5 wicket haul in 2011. He is 3 times the bowler now but his batting looks lazy and he often looks disinterested unless he is having a biff for quick runs. I don't know what returning players we have, only Westwood as we are unlikely to see Woakes this season and Rankin rarely strings many games together enough to get into a good run of form before his next injury comes along. There are not that many options but Javid must surely be given a go as long as they don't go and bat him in a stupid position as they did when they tried him as an opener. This is not just a batting problem as our bowlers have not extracted the amount that Surrey and Yorkshire bowlers have done in the 2 games we have played. I just hope that IF we do get into a winning position in any CC game this season, we don't go and blow it like we did in a few games last season (Durham at home, Somerset away) by not cashing in whilst ahead.
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#97
The disease in the team is not age it is complacency, Sir Alex Ferguson said it is one of the biggest dangers in preventing success. There is no competition for places. Either lack of money or poor management has meant no effective team building for several seasons. The lack of home produced cricketers coming through is also worth close examination. Jobs for the boys syndrome at Edgbaston  does not ensure the best people are employed in these vital development roles. Giles has shown he has the qualities required to improve matters, i hope the club give him the resources he needs to do his job.
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#98
Pretty gruesome situation. Not only is there no competition for places but we have started both games this year with two players that we know are not of Division One quality and never will be, plus one who is yet to make his mark. The rest have known class but they don't seem to be up for it. We're struggling to field a team.

Two things that the management can do: motivate the established players and bring on young talent. Dropping a few of the 'stars' to give others a chance might achieve both those objectives.
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#99
Complacency does often come with age though, that feeling that you have been there and done that and that the experiences you had in the past will carry you through the next hurdle. Because there is that feeling of comfort in a side full of strong personalities, it means no one is looking over their shoulders and seeing that there is a young players waiting for them to slip up and lose form so that he can slip into the team and hopefully get a regular place. The problem after the 2011 and 2012 seasons was the feeling that " Of course we expect to keep having high positions in the CC table and win it again" and every year everyone kept saying this was "The last chance this bunch have of winning the title again" but it never came and will not any more. That sort of thinking from the club and it's supporters perhaps held back young players from being given a run of games to see how they coped. Certainly, after 2012 I was one of those supporters who thought we would win the title a couple more times before this season but it is beginning to feel as though we were not quite as good then as we all thought.
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I do agree I think that jobs for the boys is a big problem at Warwickshire. I'm all for utilising talent you have, but it shouldn't be automatic that if you played you get some kind of coaching role afterwards.

An example of this would be Jim Troughton, decent batsmen for us, but what pedigree does he have as a coach? Hopefully he will develop with us, but you run the risk of being personally very close to all the players in a way an outsider wouldn't be, which can cloud your ability to judge on current performance not history.

Equally isn't Tony Frost a batting coach or consultant? Again great person, true Bear, but I feel as a club we should be aiming higher in the staff we look to attract, otherwise this sort of security for players and then former players leads turn complacency and lack of competitive spirit.

It wouldn't go down well at all, but I would say keep Mellor, Bell, Trott, Patel, Barker in the team for the next game, pick everyone else from the 2's, and put the previous first team players in the 2's. Give it a 3-4 games and see if anyone that was dropped is banging down the door to come back, or anyone that was promoted isn't performing and then have a rethink.

This would be no means guaranteed to work but shows the players and the public Warwickshire is a club where you must perform, but youth is also given a chance.
The Bowler's Holding the batsman's Willey
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