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England in South Africa
#41
(06-01-2016, 10:59 PM)Paul Wrote: More bowlers than batsmen in county cricket in England. I can only think of Michael Carberry as a batsmen who has played for England. I'm sure someone will point out others though. How many black English batsmen have we had play for Warwickshire? Doubt if theres much interest in cricket and its more a white middle class sport in this country supported by the asian comunnity as well.

Keith Piper scored two first-class hundreds for Warwickshire (though batting wasn't, of course, his primary role).
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#42
Keith Barker too, of course.

The more I think about the points made above, the more shocked I become. I've tried to think of English born, black players in county cricket at the moment and I can only come up with Barker, Carberry, Tymal Mills and Daniel Bell-Drummond. (Even Recordo Gordon wasn't born here.) That really does support Paul's point about the game having become the preserve of the white middle classes. I haven't been in touch with club cricket for a long time but, back in the day, you could reckon that every major town had a West Indian club of some sort. Have they died out? If they still exist, what happens to the talent developing there? As I say, I am truly shocked.

On a separate point, what is the ethnicity of Ashwell Prince and Alviro Petersen, both South African centurions? Are they classed as Cape Coloured? It seems a shame to have to ask, they and Bavuma are good players whatever their race, I'm just a little puzzled by the fuss over Bavuma.
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#43
I make no judgment, but cricket has indeed become the preserve of the white middle classes...... look at the education of recent England teams........ when I was at Lords the last two years there was a presentation for youngsters who had excelled at the game; virtually everyone was white and attending a public school. 'In 2015 seven per cent of British children were privately educated, and yet the England Test team last year stood at 73 per cent. Only three players broke the pattern at one stage'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket...ution.html and other sites.
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#44
Scyld Berry gives some more background on Langa and also points out how many England batsmen went to public schools:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket...avuma.html
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#45
Broad's bowling and two superb catches by Taylor produced one of England's best ever performances.

2 players developed by Leicestershire - the county some would relegate to the scrapheap.
LE - aka John
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#46
What of all those new fans and exciting prospects in other areas of the country that aren't given a chance... Why should Leicestershire, Derbyshire and and Northants in a thirty odd mile triangle represent a sixth of our first class game and a third of the second division when they litter our wonderful game with wooden spoons galore.....

I was shocked by this statement in Terry's article... "All the batsmen in England’s squad except one, even the wicketkeepers, went to private schools: Nick Compton and Gary Ballance to Harrow, Joe Root and Samit Patel to Worksop College, and so on. Alex Hales is trying to become England’s first established Test batsman from a state school since Paul Collingwood." Changes need to be made to save our wonderful game.... A form of socio economic aparthide?

On a positive not, this was an excellent win for England.... Test match completed in three days and I wouldn't have predicted that this morning..... Time to scrap 50 over ODIs and focus on Test and T20 cricket. 50 over cricket is an irrelevance that clouds the glory of the longer game.
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#47
In many cases the players concerned attended private schools on sporting scholarships, or their parents may have made sacrifices to benefit their children's education.

Is that bad? Why the objection to people making choices on how they spend their money? Investing in a private education for the benefit of their children is a sensible decision.

Or would you prefer that people are not allowed to make choices for themselves?
While Robert may be bad, Robert is not all Mugabe's.
There are GOOD Mugabe's
It is Warwickshire County Cricket Club!
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#48
Warley,Northants&Derbyshire have been in division1,albeit for1 season,more recently than cockney counties Essex& Kent!
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#49
Factually, a very good point from Simon.
While Robert may be bad, Robert is not all Mugabe's.
There are GOOD Mugabe's
It is Warwickshire County Cricket Club!
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#50
(16-01-2016, 11:09 PM)The Good Mugabe Wrote: Factually, a very good point from Simon.

Agreed, except that you would need pretty good ears to hear the sound of Bow Bells from anywhere in Kent.
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#51
TTo a brummie anything SE Northants is a cockney!
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#52
This is the most exiting England team in many years. South Africa though without their two best bowlers and over-reliant on AB and Amla who both look jaded with the responsibility, have the worst team i can remember.

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#53
(16-01-2016, 06:37 PM)The Good Mugabe Wrote: In many cases the players concerned attended private schools on sporting scholarships, or their parents may have made sacrifices to benefit their children's education.

Is that bad? Why the objection to people making choices on how they spend their money? Investing in a private education for the benefit of their children is a sensible decision.

Or would you prefer that people are not allowed to make choices for themselves?

Don't understand this response... People have every right to work hard and send their children to public school. However, some of the percentages of public school education for England cricketers shows the game is sadly becoming a sport for those who do and not for those who can't. Perhaps we don't have to worry that the professional game at that level is based on less than seven percent of the population? The fact that Collingwood was the last established England batsman to go to a state school is to me a concern.... I thought the game was trying to become inclusive, rather than neglecting those whose parents are unable to send them to public school or parents came from an ethnic minority? Cricket has to be careful.... Statistics show it is failing to reach out despite its claims to try to do so.
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#54
Is the public/state school debate more to do with state schools not providing proper sport education including cricket. Too much playing in a pc mixed sex enviroment instead of concentrating on getting the best out of boys and girls.
LE - aka John
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#55
Interesting point.... I also suppose that sadly Cricket is also no longer relevant in many state schools due to the wonderful diverse multicultural non cricketing countries they often now represent that enrich our country. English often a second, third or fourth language in the class room. A young Polish or Libyan boy may struggle with the concept of cricket? Not a problem at Rugby etc. Perhaps Public schools should not be subsidised by the tax payer and loose their charitable status (over £700 million a year of tax payers money) so that state school cricket can improve? Perhaps state schools have been over run by liberal left do gooders who want to destroy the game whilst they send their own children to private school where you are 55 times more likely to get an Oxbridge place..... or a significant greater opportunity to play cricket for England or indeed get willy wonkers golden ticket to life on the back of the old boys network..... The PC brigade have a lot to answer for....
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#56
Its not the public school vs state school thats the problem its the fact that for many many years cricket has not been played in state schools. Even at the school I was at Stuart Bathurst we didn't play cricket until I was 16. That was because some maths teacher wanted to form a school team. Should it be part of the physical eductaion curriculum: I think so.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...s-of-study

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#57
Regarding Bavuma, a lot was made of him being the first black South African to make a hundred, but as i said at the time it was easy runs, he failed when it mattered in the last test. I always think its when you make the runs that matters. Root's hundred was world class. He is a terrific batsman, the best English one i have seen in my life time. Thats taking away the Warwickshire bias of Bell and Amiss. Root will prove to be better than both and KP. Who is KP by the way? No mention of his name anymore.

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#58
(18-01-2016, 01:26 PM)Paul Wrote: Regarding Bavuma, a lot was made of him being the first black South African to make a hundred, but as i said at the time it was easy runs, he failed when it mattered in the last test. I always think its when you make the runs that matters. Root's hundred was world class. He is a terrific batsman, the best English one i have seen in my life time. Thats taking away the Warwickshire bias of Bell and Amiss. Root will prove to be better than both and KP. Who is KP by the way? No mention of his name anymore.

If you consider all the handicaps, both social and economic, that Bavuma had to overcome even to get near to the South African Test team, I respectfully suggest that his runs were very hard earned indeed.
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#59
Root's a gem, no doubt about that. I'd wait a little before calling him the best English batsman of our time, though. Other players (not least Ian Bell) have had purple patches where they could do no wrong. If Root can keep it up, he'll be close to deserving that accolade, though.

Oh, and don't forget that the only English batsman ever to have been chosen as ICC player of the year is a certain Jonathan Trott.
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#60
(18-01-2016, 03:17 PM)Terry Wrote:
(18-01-2016, 01:26 PM)Paul Wrote: Regarding Bavuma, a lot was made of him being the first black South African to make a hundred, but as i said at the time it was easy runs, he failed when it mattered in the last test. I always think its when you make the runs that matters. Root's hundred was world class. He is a terrific batsman, the best English one i have seen in my life time. Thats taking away the Warwickshire bias of Bell and Amiss. Root will prove to be better than both and KP. Who is KP by the way? No mention of his name anymore.

If you consider all the handicaps, both social and economic, that Bavuma had to overcome even to get near to the South African Test team, I respectfully suggest that his runs were very hard earned indeed.

I respect the fact he overcame a lot of hurdles and to play for South Africa is a massive achievement in itself but his hundred was overplayed.

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