England v Pakistan in UAE

[Paul]

A poor showing from England.  We didn't get anywhere near enough runs with only one real partnership between Morgan and Taylor and useful runs from Woakes. Topley bowled well but but Willey no threat and Rashid bowls so much tosh. I think he's been found out at this level. Once again I thought Hafeez was class. Seems to be batting better now he doesn't bowl.

[Terry]

(11-11-2015, 07:49 PM)Paul Wrote: A poor showing from England.  We didn't get anywhere near enough runs with only one real partnership between Morgan and Taylor and useful runs from Woakes. Topley bowled well but but Willey no threat and Rashid bowls so much tosh. I think he's been found out at this level. Once again I thought Hafeez was class. Seems to be batting better now he doesn't bowl.

Paul - I hope Martyn Moxon doesn't read this or he'll brand you as anti-Yorkshire:
http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/other-spo...-1-7564630

[Paul]

Moxon shows himself up there sayng Willis is anti-yorkshire. Thats his job to be critical! That comment is interesting, calling Bob a nobody. I've just never been impressed by Rashid.

[Terry]

(12-11-2015, 12:27 AM)Paul Wrote: Moxon shows himself up there sayng Willis is anti-yorkshire. Thats his job to be critical!  That comment is interesting, calling Bob a nobody. I've just never been impressed by Rashid.

I think half of Yorkshire still haven't forgiven Bob for breaking Geoff Boycott's hand in a Gillette Cup match way back.  The other half are queuing up to congratulate him.

[DJL]

(11-11-2015, 07:49 PM)Paul Wrote: A poor showing from England.  We didn't get anywhere near enough runs with only one real partnership between Morgan and Taylor and useful runs from Woakes. Topley bowled well but but Willey no threat and Rashid bowls so much tosh. I think he's been found out at this level. Once again I thought Hafeez was class. Seems to be batting better now he doesn't bowl.

Simple reason why ENGLAND lost to PAKISTAN yesterday:

Pakistan played controlled cricket - England suffered from Brain Dead Batting - Taylor well set - He and Morgan had batted England into a good position after another poor start when he needlessly runs out Buttler and then gets out to a sloppy shot himself. Although Moeen Ali was out to a very special catch - What the hell was he playing at - Just arrived at the crease - Should have smacked it through point/cover - Needs to build an innings - Needs to bat through - Rashid brain dead batting - Chips to mid-on. As Messrs Amiss and Boycott keep reminding everyone you cannot score runs sat in the pavilion.

The game is 50 overs long - A run a ball would have given England 300 - You don't have to keep trying to smash the ball to the boundary - Come One (or Two etc) is good enough as long as you do not lose wickets -  Even after Morgan was out if the remaining batsmen (apart from Chris Woakes who was superb) had used their 'loaf' then we would have set Pakistan 250 - 270. On top of that our bowling was poor - Too much rubbish spoken about bowling at that level - Its not just about swinging the ball, spin or reverse swing - There are only two considerations [1] Make it as difficult as possible for the opposition to score runs [2] Take Wickets. England had a great start 3 down early on couldn't capitalise mid-innings. Too much width - Too short on occasions - No Plan?

Moeen & Rashid bowl too many four balls at this time - They drag the ball down too often at this level - Trying to be too clever perhaps? Or is it that neither of them are top draw spin bowlers? Topley did well once he overcame his early nerves but I'd have included Liam Plunkett in my team - Has pace (even on slow wickets) which was missing throughout Pakistan's innings.
 
Heard rumours that Chris Jordan will be selected for the tomorrow's match - I presume in place of David Willey or Adil Rashid - Cannot possibly leave Chris Woakes out can they? Jordan, in my opinion, although he's a very good fielder particularly close to the wicket is a 'Donkey Drop' Bowler and like many of his England team mates suffers from Brain Dead Batting syndrome.

Be interested to see what team we put out - COME ON ENGLAND!

[DJL]

(12-11-2015, 12:27 AM)Paul Wrote: Moxon shows himself up there sayng Willis is anti-yorkshire. Thats his job to be critical!  That comment is interesting, calling Bob a nobody. I've just never been impressed by Rashid.

I wouldn't worry too much about Bob Willis - He can certainly look after his self - I don't think he did himself any favour by denegrating Fred Trueman's test record - 300 wickets in 60 Tests is some going.

Bob, if I remember, was interviewed on Sky TV following Jimmy Anderson's 400th Test Wicket and apart from quite rightly stating that records were there to be broken made rather stupid and derogatory comments in relation to Fred Trueman's Test Record (i.e "Well he got most of his wickets against India and they weren't very good were they,  etc., etc).

Not very clever in my view - Certainly annoyed me and I'm a Warwickshire man - There was absolutly no need for such comments unless of course perhaps Bob has a long memory and did Fred criticise him (tit for tat?). However,  I think Bob should remember what goes around comes around. It was also sad to hear earlier this year following Richie Benaud's death, Ted Dexter quoted on camera as saying that he didn't think much of Benaud as a Leg-Spinner.

I think criticism is one thing - Making it personal is something else. Isn't funny how current Commentators those of whom were ex-Players (Atherton - Hussain in particular) who are quite happy to 'slag' off current Cricketers but didn't like it much when they were on the end of criticism during their playing careers. Atherton & Hussain spent a lot of time earlier this year floating the view that Alastair Cook should be sacked and that he wasn't good enough to captain England to an Ashes Test Series victory over the Aussies. Two former England Captains that never won a Test Series against Australia telling England how to regain the Ashes - Well I never? Oh yes I forgot, their players weren't good enough or Australia were too strong - Well fancy that eh?

I didn't hear Martyn Moxon's criticism of Bob Willis but as they say everyone is entitled to an opinion as long as they don't make it personal.

[Paul]

(12-11-2015, 12:07 PM)DJL Wrote:

(11-11-2015, 07:49 PM)Paul Wrote: A poor showing from England.  We didn't get anywhere near enough runs with only one real partnership between Morgan and Taylor and useful runs from Woakes. Topley bowled well but but Willey no threat and Rashid bowls so much tosh. I think he's been found out at this level. Once again I thought Hafeez was class. Seems to be batting better now he doesn't bowl.

Simple reason why ENGLAND lost to PAKISTAN yesterday:

Pakistan played controlled cricket - England suffered from Brain Dead Batting - Taylor well set - He and Morgan had batted England into a good position after another poor start when he needlessly runs out Buttler and then gets out to a sloppy shot himself. Although Moeen Ali was out to a very special catch - What the hell was he playing at - Just arrived at the crease - Should have smacked it through point/cover - Needs to build an innings - Needs to bat through - Rashid brain dead batting - Chips to mid-on. As Messrs Amiss and Boycott keep reminding everyone you cannot score runs sat in the pavilion.

The game is 50 overs long - A run a ball would have given England 300 - You don't have to keep trying to smash the ball to the boundary - Come One (or Two etc) is good enough as long as you do not lose wickets -  Even after Morgan was out if the remaining batsmen (apart from Chris Woakes who was superb) had used their 'loaf' then we would have set Pakistan 250 - 270. On top of that our bowling was poor - Too much rubbish spoken about bowling at that level - Its not just about swinging the ball, spin or reverse swing - There are only two considerations [1] Make it as difficult as possible for the opposition to score runs [2] Take Wickets. England had a great start 3 down early on couldn't capitalise mid-innings. Too much width - Too short on occasions - No Plan?

Moeen & Rashid bowl too many four balls at this time - They drag the ball down too often at this level - Trying to be too clever perhaps? Or is it that neither of them are top draw spin bowlers? Topley did well once he overcame his early nerves but I'd have included Liam Plunkett in my team - Has pace (even on slow wickets) which was missing throughout Pakistan's innings.
 
Heard rumours that Chris Jordan will be selected for the tomorrow's match - I presume in place of David Willey or Adil Rashid - Cannot possibly leave Chris Woakes out can they? Jordan, in my opinion, although he's a very good fielder particularly close to the wicket is a 'Donkey Drop' Bowler and like many of his England team mates suffers from Brain Dead Batting syndrome.

Be interested to see what team we put out - COME ON ENGLAND!

Yes Moeen has two odi hundreds at the top of the order. So they have him in the wrong position in both formats. Regarding the bowling Moeen bowled 7 overs 1 for 32, which is very respectable figures in this format of the game and Hafeez is great against spin, Rashid 9 overs for 60 which is not acceptable, so combining the two which some journalists have done is plain wrong.

[DJL]

(12-11-2015, 05:16 PM)Paul Wrote:

(12-11-2015, 12:07 PM)DJL Wrote:

(11-11-2015, 07:49 PM)Paul Wrote: A poor showing from England.  We didn't get anywhere near enough runs with only one real partnership between Morgan and Taylor and useful runs from Woakes. Topley bowled well but but Willey no threat and Rashid bowls so much tosh. I think he's been found out at this level. Once again I thought Hafeez was class. Seems to be batting better now he doesn't bowl.

Simple reason why ENGLAND lost to PAKISTAN yesterday:

Pakistan played controlled cricket - England suffered from Brain Dead Batting - Taylor well set - He and Morgan had batted England into a good position after another poor start when he needlessly runs out Buttler and then gets out to a sloppy shot himself. Although Moeen Ali was out to a very special catch - What the hell was he playing at - Just arrived at the crease - Should have smacked it through point/cover - Needs to build an innings - Needs to bat through - Rashid brain dead batting - Chips to mid-on. As Messrs Amiss and Boycott keep reminding everyone you cannot score runs sat in the pavilion.

The game is 50 overs long - A run a ball would have given England 300 - You don't have to keep trying to smash the ball to the boundary - Come One (or Two etc) is good enough as long as you do not lose wickets -  Even after Morgan was out if the remaining batsmen (apart from Chris Woakes who was superb) had used their 'loaf' then we would have set Pakistan 250 - 270. On top of that our bowling was poor - Too much rubbish spoken about bowling at that level - Its not just about swinging the ball, spin or reverse swing - There are only two considerations [1] Make it as difficult as possible for the opposition to score runs [2] Take Wickets. England had a great start 3 down early on couldn't capitalise mid-innings. Too much width - Too short on occasions - No Plan?

Moeen & Rashid bowl too many four balls at this time - They drag the ball down too often at this level - Trying to be too clever perhaps? Or is it that neither of them are top draw spin bowlers? Topley did well once he overcame his early nerves but I'd have included Liam Plunkett in my team - Has pace (even on slow wickets) which was missing throughout Pakistan's innings.
 
Heard rumours that Chris Jordan will be selected for the tomorrow's match - I presume in place of David Willey or Adil Rashid - Cannot possibly leave Chris Woakes out can they? Jordan, in my opinion, although he's a very good fielder particularly close to the wicket is a 'Donkey Drop' Bowler and like many of his England team mates suffers from Brain Dead Batting syndrome.

Be interested to see what team we put out - COME ON ENGLAND!

Yes Moeen has two odi hundreds at the top of the order. So they have him in the wrong position in both formats. Regarding the bowling Moeen bowled 7 overs 1 for 32, which is very respectable figures in this format of the game and Hafeez is great against spin, Rashid 9 overs for 60 which is not acceptable, so combining the two which some journalists have done is plain wrong.

I think you make a good point there - England might just be making a mistake by combining the 2 spinners - As I have stated on a number of prior occasions Moeen Ali genuinely spins the ball - Needs time and help to develop further. Rashid is no mug but I know you don't rate him too highly BUT leg spin is very much a creative skill (hope that doesn't sound confusing) - With notable exceptions Leg Spinners tend to mature much later than Off Spinners - That doesn't mean to say that you play them if they are getting hammered around the park though does it - Perhaps that is the problem - One of either is good - Two is plain wrong.

Like your Posts - Always like guys who back their judgement - Well played.

[DJL]

(13-11-2015, 01:34 PM)DJL Wrote:

(12-11-2015, 05:16 PM)Paul Wrote:

(12-11-2015, 12:07 PM)DJL Wrote:

(11-11-2015, 07:49 PM)Paul Wrote: A poor showing from England.  We didn't get anywhere near enough runs with only one real partnership between Morgan and Taylor and useful runs from Woakes. Topley bowled well but but Willey no threat and Rashid bowls so much tosh. I think he's been found out at this level. Once again I thought Hafeez was class. Seems to be batting better now he doesn't bowl.

Simple reason why ENGLAND lost to PAKISTAN yesterday:

Pakistan played controlled cricket - England suffered from Brain Dead Batting - Taylor well set - He and Morgan had batted England into a good position after another poor start when he needlessly runs out Buttler and then gets out to a sloppy shot himself. Although Moeen Ali was out to a very special catch - What the hell was he playing at - Just arrived at the crease - Should have smacked it through point/cover - Needs to build an innings - Needs to bat through - Rashid brain dead batting - Chips to mid-on. As Messrs Amiss and Boycott keep reminding everyone you cannot score runs sat in the pavilion.

The game is 50 overs long - A run a ball would have given England 300 - You don't have to keep trying to smash the ball to the boundary - Come One (or Two etc) is good enough as long as you do not lose wickets -  Even after Morgan was out if the remaining batsmen (apart from Chris Woakes who was superb) had used their 'loaf' then we would have set Pakistan 250 - 270. On top of that our bowling was poor - Too much rubbish spoken about bowling at that level - Its not just about swinging the ball, spin or reverse swing - There are only two considerations [1] Make it as difficult as possible for the opposition to score runs [2] Take Wickets. England had a great start 3 down early on couldn't capitalise mid-innings. Too much width - Too short on occasions - No Plan?

Moeen & Rashid bowl too many four balls at this time - They drag the ball down too often at this level - Trying to be too clever perhaps? Or is it that neither of them are top draw spin bowlers? Topley did well once he overcame his early nerves but I'd have included Liam Plunkett in my team - Has pace (even on slow wickets) which was missing throughout Pakistan's innings.
 
Heard rumours that Chris Jordan will be selected for the tomorrow's match - I presume in place of David Willey or Adil Rashid - Cannot possibly leave Chris Woakes out can they? Jordan, in my opinion, although he's a very good fielder particularly close to the wicket is a 'Donkey Drop' Bowler and like many of his England team mates suffers from Brain Dead Batting syndrome.

Be interested to see what team we put out - COME ON ENGLAND!

Yes Moeen has two odi hundreds at the top of the order. So they have him in the wrong position in both formats. Regarding the bowling Moeen bowled 7 overs 1 for 32, which is very respectable figures in this format of the game and Hafeez is great against spin, Rashid 9 overs for 60 which is not acceptable, so combining the two which some journalists have done is plain wrong.

I think you make a good point there - England might just be making a mistake by combining the 2 spinners - As I have stated on a number of prior occasions Moeen Ali genuinely spins the ball - Needs time and help to develop further. Rashid is no mug but I know you don't rate him too highly BUT leg spin is very much a creative skill (hope that doesn't sound confusing) - With notable exceptions Leg Spinners tend to mature much later than Off Spinners - That doesn't mean to say that you play them if they are getting hammered around the park though does it - Perhaps that is the problem - One of either is good - Two is plain wrong.

Like your Posts - Always like guys who back their judgement - Well played.

Funny old game eh as someone once said - 2nd ODI - England post a decent score batting first off 50 overs - Pakistan under 'scoreboard' pressure - Rashid looks like a world beater! Woakes has bowled superbly - Did it with the bat in the last game - With the ball this - A typical all-rounder's performance eh? Jonathan (Trott) on commentary sounds good - No platitudes - Just sticks to the facts - Allows the viewer to see whats going on for themselves - I like his style - A career do you think?

[Paul]

Yes Trott is good. Woakes has bowled well so far so as Rashid. Hales outstanding with the bat. Allround very good.

[DJL]

(13-11-2015, 06:18 PM)Paul Wrote: Yes Trott is good. Woakes has bowled well so far so as Rashid. Hales outstanding with the bat. Allround very good.

Spot on Mate - Funny old game eh when the Batsmen do their bit eh?

[Terry]

I think Trotty has improved a lot on commentary and has even toned down his South African accent so this may offer him a full-time career - but hopefully not just yet.

[DJL]

(13-11-2015, 07:03 PM)Terry Wrote: I think Trotty has improved a lot on commentary and has even toned down his South African accent so this may offer him a full-time career - but hopefully not just yet.

He seems to be a natural Terry.

[DJL]

(13-11-2015, 07:03 PM)Terry Wrote: I think Trotty has improved a lot on commentary and has even toned down his South African accent so this may offer him a full-time career - but hopefully not just yet.

He seems to be a natural Terry.

[DJL]

I think Trotty's a natural Terry

[Paul]

(13-11-2015, 07:00 PM)DJL Wrote:

(13-11-2015, 06:18 PM)Paul Wrote: Yes Trott is good. Woakes has bowled well so far so as Rashid. Hales outstanding with the bat. Allround very good.

Spot on Mate - Funny old game eh when the Batsmen do their bit eh?

Yes and once Hafeez was out it was game over as far as I'm concerned. Need to back this up with a performance next match.

[Terry]

Another four wicket haul for Chris Woakes today - plus he nearly had the same man out three times in his final over - two overturned lbw reviews and then he bowled him.  I have to say that Pakistan self-destructed with the bat - three run-outs and quite a few catches from lofted boundary shots.

[Paul]

Quite true, but the pressure the England bowlers put on them led to their self destruction. Yes Chris did well as did Moeen. I thought Taylor and Buttler did very well considering the two Pakistani spinners were starting to extract extravagent spin

[DJL]

(17-11-2015, 11:06 PM)Paul Wrote: Quite true, but the pressure the England bowlers put on them led to their self destruction. Yes Chris did well as did Moeen. I thought Taylor and Buttler did very well considering the two Pakistani spinners were starting to extract extravagent spin

Well said Paul - A very Professional performance by a team that would appear to be growing in confidence. Buttler (miss-stumped third ball on nought) had his first bit of luck in some time BUT instead of giving his wicket away on this occasion made the opposition pay.

COME ON ENGAND!

[Terry]

I must admit that the thought did occur to me:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/cricket/en...er-6869308