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The Future of County Cricket
All time Welsh XI? Not that many spring to mind. Captained by Tony Lewis of course, there's Matt Maynard, Hugh Morris himself, lots of people called Jones (Alan, Jeff, Simon, Geraint). Has Warwickshire featured any notable Welshmen?
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(02-04-2017, 08:06 AM)GrizzlyBear Wrote: All time Welsh XI? Not that many spring to mind. Captained by Tony Lewis of course, there's Matt Maynard, Hugh Morris himself, lots of people called Jones (Alan, Jeff, Simon, Geraint). Has Warwickshire featured any notable Welshmen?

The only one I can think of is Jim Stewart:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/cont...21038.html
He was a tremendous six-hitter and for a long time held the record for the most sixes in a first-class match (17).
He was always W J Stewart on the scorecard; and seeing his third forename, I can understand why!
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Ah yes, I did see Jim Stewart play but not until late in his career after, I think, he'd had a big toe amputated. I gather he wasn't quite the same force as in his early days.

I shall resist the temptation to link Welshmen and sheep.
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(02-04-2017, 10:55 AM)GrizzlyBear Wrote: Ah yes, I did see Jim Stewart play but not until late in his career after, I think, he'd had a big toe amputated. I gather he wasn't quite the same force as in his early days.

I shall resist the temptation to link Welshmen and sheep.

A pity you didn't!

No, Jim was never quite the same player after he had his big toe amputated.
I can't think of any other Welsh Bears, though there was one Welch Bear (Graeme).
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Some scepticism from Surrey, as reported by my colleague Bradley Adams:
http://deepextracover.com/2017/04/batty-...e-or-more/
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(31-03-2017, 06:11 AM)Warleybear Wrote: Perhaps its time for the game to split....  the players sign contracts for whatever side and format they want. The grounds become holding companies / umbrella organisations that sell out the facilities to (in the example of Edgbaston)  Warwicks, Birmingham and England. Different tarrifs for weekends etc. Each format then stands on its own two feet, pays  its players what it can afford and its fate is decided by commercial forces and bums on seats.

Cricket must be worried about the demographics in the UK ..... I am.  T20 fits with peoples lives... indeed I believe cricket should become an Olympic sport and played as T10. Each game over in 90 minutes with a number of games played each day.

Interesting times.....

agree with this

For some time since the obsession with Edgbaston stadium began I've said the logic is to give the ground to the City Council and relocate Warwickshire County Cricket Club to  a new purpose built venue in the centre of the county.

Somewhere WCCC badly lost their way. Probably when they got so over their heads in debt and over reached replacing the Pavilion. A sports team playing under a different identity and which promotes its ground more than its Club.

Somehow we need to urgently adjust priorities.
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(31-03-2017, 11:39 PM)narsty simon Wrote:
(30-03-2017, 04:46 PM)DJL Wrote:
(28-03-2017, 03:47 PM)Jon Wrote:
(28-03-2017, 08:41 AM)narsty simon Wrote:
(28-03-2017, 08:38 AM)narsty simon Wrote:

The members 'pack was a superbly  gifted box set and a wonderful  gesture  by the club to its members, pity it was wasted  on ungrateful whingers like you

yep completely wasted on me.

I'd rather have had a Warwickshire County Cricket Club membership card (my club), a WCCC yearbook and information relating to WCCC. I have absolutely zero affinity with Birmingham Bears whoever they are.

The Members Pack is a classic case of MIS-DIRECTION from an organization that is INSOLVENT trying to make out to its public that it has MONEY - WCCC is 27 million pounds in debt and taking all assets & liabilities into account the Club is INSOLVENT to the tune of 3.7 million pounds - So why is it sending out a costly boxed pack - Well as I say it is a case of MIS-DIRECTION - Please don't call me a whinger more appropriate to call me a PRAGMATIST or a REALIST.

Are that Jon and you a double act?!we have had the chuckle  brothers you could  be the whingeing brothers

I suspect we are just different people who know a lot more about Warwickshire County Cricket club than you do.
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(05-04-2017, 10:33 AM)Terry Wrote: Some scepticism from Surrey, as reported by my colleague Bradley Adams:
http://deepextracover.com/2017/04/batty-...e-or-more/

Interesting piece Terry.

Fascinating to see an Aussie pointing out the obvious differences between their BBL set-up and the one proposed here.

Graves and Harrison have talked about a leap of faith. This looks to me like a leap in the dark whilst bound and blindfolded with a gun pointed at your head.

Also - and on a lighter note - I am instinctively against anything that has the full support of Messrs Vaughan, Pieteresen and Piers Morgan. 9898 9898
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(05-04-2017, 02:07 PM)Jon Wrote:
(31-03-2017, 11:39 PM)narsty simon Wrote:
(30-03-2017, 04:46 PM)DJL Wrote:
(28-03-2017, 03:47 PM)Jon Wrote:
(28-03-2017, 08:41 AM)narsty simon Wrote: The members 'pack was a superbly  gifted box set and a wonderful  gesture  by the club to its members, pity it was wasted  on ungrateful whingers like you

yep completely wasted on me.

I'd rather have had a Warwickshire County Cricket Club membership card (my club), a WCCC yearbook and information relating to WCCC. I have absolutely zero affinity with Birmingham Bears whoever they are.

The Members Pack is a classic case of MIS-DIRECTION from an organization that is INSOLVENT trying to make out to its public that it has MONEY - WCCC is 27 million pounds in debt and taking all assets & liabilities into account the Club is INSOLVENT to the tune of 3.7 million pounds - So why is it sending out a costly boxed pack - Well as I say it is a case of MIS-DIRECTION - Please don't call me a whinger more appropriate to call me a PRAGMATIST or a REALIST.

Are that Jon and you a double act?!we have had the chuckle  brothers you could  be the whingeing brothers

I suspect we are just different people who know a lot more about Warwickshire County Cricket club than you do.
Probably true, still no need to continually whinge
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Here's an interesting review of the finances of all counties:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/a...ealthcheck
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TMS Producer Adam Mountford has tweeted:
"Well over a million people listened to the opening round of 2017 County season via BBC Sport & that's just the online figures."
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Do we think that's true? I'm as big a fan of the county game as you will find and I didn't listen to any of it so who are these million people? If they really exist it would suggest there is more of a latent market out there than the ECB would have us believe.
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The BBC will have access to very accurate and detailed analytics for their websites and online services, so I'd be confident in the accuracy of the statement.

Lot's of people, not just in he UK listen to the coverage of county games, especially if work or location prevents them from attending the game.
While Robert may be bad, Robert is not all Mugabe's.
There are GOOD Mugabe's
It is Warwickshire County Cricket Club!
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Someone asked him if tuning in twice counted as two people but he said that there were over a million "unique browsers".  So I think it is genuine.  And someone else said that if Somerset had been playing, the figure would have been much higher - though that's just an assumption.
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From the Yorkshire Forum http://www.network54.com/Forum/274761/th...ttendances - well worth a read. County cricket is in rude health one would think, will be a shame this year to see attendances decline due to the shortening of the season.

Bearing in mind the radical proposals for fundamental changes to the structure of the Cricket season, I thought it might be worthwhile to highlight some key statistics which, in my opinion, put in some doubt the validity of the ECB's rationale.

1. Combined aggregate attendances for all County Championship, List A and County 20/20 in the last five years:
2012 - 970,600 2013 - 1,340,650. 2014 - 1,348,300. 2015 - 1,500,180. 2016 - 1,550,480

I make that a year on year increase of over 50%. Quite impressive and not used as part of the ECB's narrative regarding the decline of English cricket.


2. Aggregate attendances for all County Championship matches in the last five years:
2012 - 435,700. 2013 - 507,470. 2014 - 504,230. 2015 - 516,850. 2016 - 576,640

Even the 'cinderella' County Championship, marginalised to early and late season slots, has shown an increase of over
15%, despite the lack of national media coverage. The County supporters are a resilient bunch and, evidently growing in numbers.


3. Aggregate gross attendances and average attendances for 20/20 matches in the last three years, since the last restructuring. (The figure in brackets refers to the number of matches where no result was recorded. I.e. Where, due to weather, a match of less than 5 overs a side was deemed impracticable.)
2014 - 706,000 5,829 (7). 2015 - 824,400. 6,500 (3). 2016 - 815,800. 6,830 (15).


This 'mediocre' competition, reportedly unloved and unsuccessful, has recorded increases of over 15% in both gross and average attendances in the space of only three years. This has happened despite a relatively wet start to the competition in 2016.


4. You may be interested in Yorkshire's attendances over the past years:

County Championship: 2012 - 36,802. 2013 - 49,788. 2014 - 47,565. 2015 - 59,109. 2016 - 65,337.
For the past 4 years Yorkshire has secured the largest attendance of any County.
20/20 Competition: 2014 - 33,440. 5,570. 2015 - 58,916. 8,420. 2016 - 51,632. 8,600.

Steady progress, even in a competition where our fortunes are mixed.


5. Random statistics:
The County which has grown its attendances best over the past years is the often maligned Northamptonshire.
In 2013 their aggregate Championship attendance was 4,170!! In 2016 it had grown to 20,350.
In 2014 their average attendance for 20/20 matches was 3,443. In 2016 it was 4,680.

In the Northern group, the team with by far the largest 20/20 attendances is Nottinghamshire. They averaged 11,010 per game.
Next comes Warwickshire with 8,700.
In the Southern group, Surrey is by far the most well attended County. In 20/20 games they averaged 18,860 per game. Next came Middlesex with an average of 13,680 and then Somerset with 7,390.


In my view these statistics reveal steady growth in interest and attendance, despite all the obstacles put in the way of the game.
They are statistics unlikely to be trumpeted by the ECB because they don't fit in with their narrative of an urgent and irrecoverable decline.
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Dear Mad Brummie

Could you supply a link to that info, or details of the forum address, please.

Ta
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Thanks for adding link. Really interesting article
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Just edited the post Malc.

There is an argument surely for expanding the county game rather than shrinking it. Taking the game to holiday hotspots in the summer (Scarborough Festival is one reason why Yorkshire get such big crowds) or the idea of a combined Devon-Cornwall side playing and Norfolk-Suffolk-Cambridge side plus Ireland being admitted to bring the number of sides up to 21. Then go to three divisions of 7 sides which would mean a 12 match championship but to compensate for this there could be a regional 3-day competition played during the T20 window so for example, Warwickshire would compete in a 3-day competition with Worcestershire, Northants and a couple of minor county sides - say Staffordshire and Herefordshire. Two home matches (played at Stratford-upon-Avon and the M&B ground) and two away round robin with the top side playing the East Midlands winner in a Midlands County Final. Include these fixtures as part of the membership package - it would keep the red ball specialist players in action during the T20 window, keep members reasonably happy (a return to 8 competitive first class home fixtures per season) although there is the issue of quality with effectively a Warwicks 2nds side playing Herefordshire, but the main thing is to spread the County game rather than (as the ECB seem to desire) shrink it
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I quite like the idea of 3 divisions of 7. One up one down, maybe 2nd bottom plays second from top in the division beneath in a play off sort of thing.
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Interesting stuff from the Surrey members forum - in complete contrast to Neil Snowball's recycled ECB propaganda received in the post today!

Oval Forum.....

Quote:Most of the discussion was about the proposed city franchise competition. Discussions with the ECB described as "really frustrating" and confirmed that Club have been unable to discuss proposals in public.

Free-to-air "is a must" and we also "need to see England on free-to-air".

We are in a "golden era of County cricket" and "the club has never been stronger". Five or six clubs are equally successful but "others have singularly failed to catch up".

There will be eight venues and "one is likely to be here. They [the ECB] want to come here".

"put pennies in our piggy bank so we're in the best position to get through whatever it is".

The ECB are "foolish to ostracise the Counties" but " a lot of pressure is being applied".

There will be an average of five players from each County, but for Surrey this could "very easily eight or nine of the best players".

During the competition, Surrey are "not allowed to play at The Oval "It is not an appetising position".

Disagrees that NatWest Blast does not attract a new audience as Clubs' research indicates that "60 per cent have never been to a cricket match before". The Club has a database of 50,000 under-16s who are members or have been to matches at The Oval or on Surrey cricket courses.

"We could vote against it, but it would make no difference." "To be seen to go against it may bring further ramifications down the line"

"One thing we cannot do is have no-one else to play against."

On other clubs supporting franchises, "more than a few of them can only see the money".

On the Chairman of Sussex: "Jim May only agreed to support it if Surrey won't be allowed to participate."

"Minor counties have been promised more funding."

In response to question about whether there will be pressure for a further reduction to the Championship: "I think there will be."

In response to question about the chances of success for the city franchise competition and its effect on the County T20 league: "Not sure if it's going to work, but two [competitions] won't survive."

The ECB do not want any rights to be retained for Surrey members for the new franchise, but this would not be acceptable to the MCC at Lord's, so "we'll let the MCC fight that battle."

Concluding comment on question about whether Surrey should call the ECB's bluff about the use of The Oval: "We hold the keys."
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