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Jim Troughton
#21
(02-05-2012, 08:46 PM)Lilly Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 08:26 PM)Zorro Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 08:19 PM)Lilly Wrote: I like him as captain but despise having him in the team as a batsman as his knocks over the past year (the one ton aside) have been wofeul, every time he comes to the crease you just wait for him to get out cheaply now because you know it's coming.

As I say, as a captain he seems to have the luck, wins a lot of tosses and he has a team with great attributes who put a shift in for him. Ergo I'd keep him, but he needs to sort his form with the bat out, it became beyond a joke a long time ago.

Very harsh.

Good to remember all those runs Chanderpaul scored.

Which won us exactly one game and arguably, by crawling along like a tortoise at Hampshire , help cost us the championship.

If he wins the CC and hardly gets another run, who cares?

You take offence far too easily, I don't dislike Jim as a person, but as a batsman he is a waste of a place in the line up at the minute, he comes in, he gets out cheaply, it has been far too many innings now over the past two years to just be accepted.

Has he not put in a ruck load of work over the winter after his dismal performances last season? He ought to have done, Barker has and now look at him fly.

As a captain he does well, but he has to fulfill his role as a batsman in addition to this to warrant his place, who's to say any other of the ten couldn't do as he is as captain.

So your position is that:
1.although you have no idea what hes done over the winter, youll assume he hasnt done as much as Barker?

2. and that, although we are top of the table and could have won it on the last day last year, you are prepared guess that someone else as captain could do this; even though the 8 captains before him have won us one title in 17 years so what JT has already achieved is pretty darn good?

Niether seem very rational views to me.
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#22
(02-05-2012, 08:59 PM)Zorro Wrote: So your position is that:
1.although you have no idea what hes done over the winter, youll assume he hasnt done as much as Barker?

2. and that, although we are top of the table and could have won it on the last day last year, you are prepared guess that someone else as captain could do this; even though the 8 captains before him have won us one title in 17 years so what JT has already achieved is pretty darn good?

Niether seem very rational views to me.

Not at all with either, thank you for misinterpreting.

1. If he has done any work over the winter it truly does not show, Barker has clearly done work over the winter as his game has improved tenfold, whereas Mr. Troughton still looks abysmal with the bat.

2. Have the 8 previous captains had a squad that is as strong as the one we currently have? There is more to the game than the captain, they need the players to work with. The point is moot of course as there is no way of proving it either way unless you invent a time machine to put JT in charge of the previous 8 captains' squads or you make someone else captain of this squad, neither of which is likely to happen.

Nice to know you can have opinions on this board though without being lambasted, really nice.
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#23
Yes I agree Kim, its a team game and things are obviously working so why break it. We have a pretty similar side as when Westwood was captain but we struggled as a team under him so who cares whether he getting runs or not, as long as the team is winning matches.

Oh I'll fix your name a bit later tonight
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#24
(02-05-2012, 09:03 PM)Lilly Wrote: Nice to know you can have opinions on this board though without being lambasted, really nice.

You think this is being lambasted? Cry me a river.
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#25
(02-05-2012, 09:03 PM)Lilly Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 08:59 PM)Zorro Wrote: So your position is that:
1.although you have no idea what hes done over the winter, youll assume he hasnt done as much as Barker?

2. and that, although we are top of the table and could have won it on the last day last year, you are prepared guess that someone else as captain could do this; even though the 8 captains before him have won us one title in 17 years so what JT has already achieved is pretty darn good?

Niether seem very rational views to me.

Not at all with either, thank you for misinterpreting.

1. If he has done any work over the winter it truly does not show, Barker has clearly done work over the winter as his game has improved tenfold, whereas Mr. Troughton still looks abysmal with the bat.

2. Have the 8 previous captains had a squad that is as strong as the one we currently have? There is more to the game than the captain, they need the players to work with. The point is moot of course as there is no way of proving it either way unless you invent a time machine to put JT in charge of the previous 8 captains' squads or you make someone else captain of this squad, neither of which is likely to happen.

Nice to know you can have opinions on this board though without being lambasted, really nice.

You take offence far too easily.:thumbup:

Im not going to have a row but if your position is really that you can say you despise Jim Troughton but its "lambasting" if someone says a couple of your views doesnt seem very rational, what can I say?

Except that doesnt seem very rational either.
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#26
ps. NIGEL REO-COKER!
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#27
Eventually players only survive in professional sport if they produce the goods. Michael Powell stood down because he was not contributing enough runs and Andy Lloyd was released for the same reason, in my view both were better skippers than Jim. The replacement for Jim would be either Evans or Javid, both obviously not proven at first class level. As we are very successful and Jim is our captain we should support him. Most of us have seen Jim at his best and he is very pleasing on the eye. For his sake i hope he can find some form, no one is feeling it more than the player himself.
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#28
Do you think hes really feeling it so early in the season with the team doing well. I'm not so sure van de varrt not kim
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#29
(02-05-2012, 09:16 PM)parkfield bear Wrote: Eventually players only survive in professional sport if they produce the goods. Michael Powell stood down because he was not contributing enough runs and Andy Lloyd was released for the same reason, in my view both were better skippers than Jim. The replacement for Jim would be either Evans or Javid, both obviously not proven at first class level. As we are very successful and Jim is our captain we should support him. Most of us have seen Jim at his best and he is very pleasing on the eye. For his sake i hope he can find some form, no one is feeling it more than the player himself.

Yes we have to support him through thick and thin and if his doubters out there want to come along and talk to the team about him as a player, a Captain and a man, feel free to ask your questions I know what the answers will be from everyone of them he is our Captain and the right man for the job.

T20 Fantasy League Champion 2010
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#30
(02-05-2012, 09:12 PM)Zorro Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 09:03 PM)Lilly Wrote:
(02-05-2012, 08:59 PM)Zorro Wrote: So your position is that:
1.although you have no idea what hes done over the winter, youll assume he hasnt done as much as Barker?

2. and that, although we are top of the table and could have won it on the last day last year, you are prepared guess that someone else as captain could do this; even though the 8 captains before him have won us one title in 17 years so what JT has already achieved is pretty darn good?

Niether seem very rational views to me.

Not at all with either, thank you for misinterpreting.

1. If he has done any work over the winter it truly does not show, Barker has clearly done work over the winter as his game has improved tenfold, whereas Mr. Troughton still looks abysmal with the bat.

2. Have the 8 previous captains had a squad that is as strong as the one we currently have? There is more to the game than the captain, they need the players to work with. The point is moot of course as there is no way of proving it either way unless you invent a time machine to put JT in charge of the previous 8 captains' squads or you make someone else captain of this squad, neither of which is likely to happen.

Nice to know you can have opinions on this board though without being lambasted, really nice.

You take offence far too easily.:thumbup:

Im not going to have a row but if your position is really that you can say you despise Jim Troughton but its "lambasting" if someone says a couple of your views doesnt seem very rational, what can I say?

Except that doesnt seem very rational either.

I'll take that as you admitting I'm right, takes the bigger man to do that :001_tt2:

The doubters do not doubt he is a great pro, great man and a good captain Jane, it's his form with the bat. I don't doubt him because I dislike him, I have always liked him and he is a great honest pro and for years now I've wanted his form to return, but the plain fact is, it hasn't and as such criticism will follow as with anyone who fails to do their job and ultimately as a batsman his job is scoring runs.
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#31
As captain his job is primarily winning matches. A thousand runs before the end of May and a relegation battle wouldn't float my boat. However, I really hope that the runs do come for him and we keep winning.
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#32
Well this is a spiky thread.Mid September will give us the answer.If Jim has limped to five hundred runs & we have won the title we won't worry about it.If he has scored a thousand runs & we finish third I suppose we will criticise his captaincy.The bloke can't win really can he?

Yes I pray that he will get some runs every time he strides to the wicket because like all of us I know what he is capable of.Remember that nobody will feel it more than he does if he doesn't.

We are top of the Championship & long may that continue :001_smile:
ALWAYS A BEAR
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#33
(02-05-2012, 11:33 PM)Redditchbear Wrote: Well this is a spiky thread.Mid September will give us the answer.If Jim has limped to five hundred runs & we have won the title we won't worry about it.If he has scored a thousand runs & we finish third I suppose we will criticise his captaincy.The bloke can't win really can he?

Yes I pray that he will get some runs every time he strides to the wicket because like all of us I know what he is capable of.Remember that nobody will feel it more than he does if he doesn't.

We are top of the Championship & long may that continue :001_smile:

We're all crackng under the pressure of being top, Redditch.
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#34
As a captain, I think Jim is too cautious. The defensive fields all the last day at the Rose Bowl last year when we desperately needed wickets is an example. So is not declaring against Sussex this year. But is there anybody better? Don't see anyone and at least he's had the guts to take it on.

As a batsman, it's some years since he's been first division standard and I don't see that coming back now. But he can still chip in and he remains a top class fielder.

So how about he stays captain but drops a couple of places down the batting order? It's not unknown for captains to be marginal players (think Jack Bond, even MJK at England level) and we have no shortage of batting strength coming in below him at present. Ambrose/Barker 5; Woakes/Clarke 6; Troughton 7.

Could help everybody.
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#35
(03-05-2012, 08:57 AM)GrizzlyBear Wrote: As a captain, I think Jim is too cautious. The defensive fields all the last day at the Rose Bowl last year when we desperately needed wickets is an example. So is not declaring against Sussex this year. But is there anybody better? Don't see anyone and at least he's had the guts to take it on.

As a batsman, it's some years since he's been first division standard and I don't see that coming back now. But he can still chip in and he remains a top class fielder.

So how about he stays captain but drops a couple of places down the batting order? It's not unknown for captains to be marginal players (think Jack Bond, even MJK at England level) and we have no shortage of batting strength coming in below him at present. Ambrose/Barker 5; Woakes/Clarke 6; Troughton 7.

Could help everybody.

Its a long easier batting down the order and if we change the order then it might not work as well. Why fix something which isn't broken.

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#36
Lily it is very easy to be a keyboard warrior and pass judgement on a particular player when you just see figures on a scorecard.
I feel your criticism of Jim is extremely harsh and I do think it goes beyond constructive criticism.
Whilst he may be lacking in the runs department..there is more to being a captain than just that.
It's not uncommon in any side...look at Strauss and England!
What he doesn't need is seeing posts like yours saying you despise having him in the team as a batsman. That is quite insulting!
How would you feel if you stumbled across an email from a work colleague saying he despised having you as a work mate?
Think about that for a minute....
You need to start seeing the bigger picture and realise that at the moment, he is the captain of the leading CC side.
We have the best bowling attack in the country and a tail end that wags like there is no tomorrow.
Don't sit there nit picking about how many runs he is or isn't getting!
Warley hit the nail on the head saying a 1000 runs and a relegation battle at the end of May doesn't float his boat...it doesn't mine either.
Is that what you'd prefer Lily?
It probably is because I actually believe there are people out there who want to see individual players fail rather than look at where we are in the CC table.
Why don't you make the effort to get down to Edgbaston instead of doing a running commentary on here every match?
Go and have a chat with JT if you really want to speak your mind. I'm sure he'd be willing to listen to what you have to say and I'm very sure he would give you his point of view as well but you probably wouldn't like that would you?
Easier to be faceless and hide behind a laptop.
I'm a horrid bint.....apparently!
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#37
I have to say that our squad now looks very strong. Competition for places at times is going to be stiff. A few more runs from the top 5 would be welcome.... But what a fantastic start to the season. Besides - both the coffee machines worked yesterday. Although I am disapointed that Mr Povey couldn't make the weather warmer :)
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#38
Be grateful - they had sleet showers during the game at Scarborough yesterday.
Views on here are my own; but you can keep up-to-date with County Cricket at http://deepextracover.com/
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#39
(05-05-2012, 12:25 PM)Val Studley Bear Wrote: Lily it is very easy to be a keyboard warrior and pass judgement on a particular player when you just see figures on a scorecard.
I feel your criticism of Jim is extremely harsh and I do think it goes beyond constructive criticism.

I don't think Lily is being a keyboard warrior at all. That's unfair. Maybe he may have stepped the line but emotions fray, it's normal. You'll know about that.

Quote:Whilst he may be lacking in the runs department..there is more to being a captain than just that.
It's not uncommon in any side...look at Strauss and England!

Starting sound like England players and witch hunts.

Quote:What he doesn't need is seeing posts like yours saying you despise having him in the team as a batsman. That is quite insulting!

Oh pray, do tell, you know Jim personally, do you?

(did you meet Doctor Who?)


Quote:How would you feel if you stumbled across an email from a work colleague saying he despised having you as a work mate?
Think about that for a minute....

Lilly does not work with Jim. He's a supporter of Warwickshire. If we can't criticise then we might as well shut of the forum down.



Quote:You need to start seeing the bigger picture and realise that at the moment, he is the captain of the leading CC side.
We have the best bowling attack in the country and a tail end that wags like there is no tomorrow.
Don't sit there nit picking about how many runs he is or isn't getting!
Warley hit the nail on the head saying a 1000 runs and a relegation battle at the end of May doesn't float his boat...it doesn't mine either.
Is that what you'd prefer Lily?
It probably is because I actually believe there are people out there who want to see individual players fail rather than look at where we are in the CC table.

Eh? You can't celebrate without also having a reality check and realising there are still problems? Or places to improve?

Quote:Why don't you make the effort to get down to Edgbaston instead of doing a running commentary on here every match?
Go and have a chat with JT if you really want to speak your mind. I'm sure he'd be willing to listen to what you have to say and I'm very sure he would give you his point of view as well but you probably wouldn't like that would you?
Easier to be faceless and hide behind a laptop.

If you prevent people expressing their opinion because they work or are unable to get to games, that is stupid. You go to a lot of games, well done you, but not every situation is the same. And you can't, just can't sit there and tell them that they are not making an effort because you can't quantify it nor know their personal situation. Not everyone needs to sit there and adhere to a set of standards to be a fan. Other people may also not make it known like you may when they go to games...They don't feel the need to advertise or boast how big fans they are.

As long as it doesn't cross a line, why do we need to be so sensitive to Lilly's opinion. I'm sure Jim brushes anything off and knows he needs to improve. And the whole point of a match thread is to discuss the match. But I bow down your superiority and I'm going back to hide behind my desktop.

True Bear, out.
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#40
(05-05-2012, 12:25 PM)Val Studley Bear Wrote: Lily it is very easy to be a keyboard warrior and pass judgement on a particular player when you just see figures on a scorecard.
I feel your criticism of Jim is extremely harsh and I do think it goes beyond constructive criticism.
Whilst he may be lacking in the runs department..there is more to being a captain than just that.
It's not uncommon in any side...look at Strauss and England!
What he doesn't need is seeing posts like yours saying you despise having him in the team as a batsman. That is quite insulting!
How would you feel if you stumbled across an email from a work colleague saying he despised having you as a work mate?
Think about that for a minute....
You need to start seeing the bigger picture and realise that at the moment, he is the captain of the leading CC side.
We have the best bowling attack in the country and a tail end that wags like there is no tomorrow.
Don't sit there nit picking about how many runs he is or isn't getting!
Warley hit the nail on the head saying a 1000 runs and a relegation battle at the end of May doesn't float his boat...it doesn't mine either.
Is that what you'd prefer Lily?
It probably is because I actually believe there are people out there who want to see individual players fail rather than look at where we are in the CC table.
Why don't you make the effort to get down to Edgbaston instead of doing a running commentary on here every match?
Go and have a chat with JT if you really want to speak your mind. I'm sure he'd be willing to listen to what you have to say and I'm very sure he would give you his point of view as well but you probably wouldn't like that would you?
Easier to be faceless and hide behind a laptop.

I use a PC not a laptop...unfortunately.
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