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Ticket Pricing Strategy
#81
GD made this point elsewhere on here - "The club were budgeting on selling 45,000 tickets for the Test. In the end, they sold more like 30,000. They did not, as has been reported elsewhere, make a loss on the game".

Makes you wonder exactly how much profit the club expected to make if they can lose a minimum of 500k in ticket and ancillary sales and still be in the black. If you can miss ticket sales targets by about 30% and still be quids in, its hard to blame the ECB for your ticket pricing isnt it - cos they are clearly set at a level to pay the ECB, while making a fortune out of what's left.

Nothing wrong with that - but does suggest these prices arent forced so high by the ECB bid costs.

Somebody else made a point about BOGOFS yesterday. He was part of a group who regularly attends tests together but have given up because of pricing (the ashes price last year at Edgbaston was the final straw). He said that, with groups, late BOGOFs are a complete waste of time because you simply cant all get organised so late in the day. I know a group of about 10 West Ham lads who used to come to Edg who have the same problem; they used to sort it all out, book their days off , hotels etc once all the info was available (months in advance). They just cant do this with a couple of weeks BOGIOF notice so dont come anymore.
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#82
Interesting point Kim..... Tends to suggest that 45,000 at around £ 40 would have done the trick across three days ........ theres a lot who sadly dont come any more. The atmosphere will drop and things will get into a declining spiral......... it will end up like Test Match cricket in many others countries............. attendances similar to domestic Pro 40 attendances.
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#83
http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-s...-27045145/

"And he denied that the adult ticket prices of £60 for the game had deterred thousands of would-be supporters.

“Traditionally, we have always positioned ourselves between the London prices of £85 to £90 and Old Trafford, Headingley and Trent Bridge, who tend to be £15 cheaper than what we do"

Come on Colin. Its not the only factor but it is a factor. The fact that we position ourselves above Headingley - who lost 750,000 on their game and Surrey - who cant sell their seats either means youve all got it wrong, not that we are right.
Supporter of the 2014 County Champions
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#84
(11-08-2010, 10:00 AM)Kim Wrote: GD made this point elsewhere on here - "The club were budgeting on selling 45,000 tickets for the Test. In the end, they sold more like 30,000. They did not, as has been reported elsewhere, make a loss on the game".

Makes you wonder exactly how much profit the club expected to make if they can lose a minimum of 500k in ticket and ancillary sales and still be in the black. If you can miss ticket sales targets by about 30% and still be quids in, its hard to blame the ECB for your ticket pricing isnt it - cos they are clearly set at a level to pay the ECB, while making a fortune out of what's left.

Nothing wrong with that - but does suggest these prices arent forced so high by the ECB bid costs.

Somebody else made a point about BOGOFS yesterday. He was part of a group who regularly attends tests together but have given up because of pricing (the ashes price last year at Edgbaston was the final straw). He said that, with groups, late BOGOFs are a complete waste of time because you simply cant all get organised so late in the day. I know a group of about 10 West Ham lads who used to come to Edg who have the same problem; they used to sort it all out, book their days off , hotels etc once all the info was available (months in advance). They just cant do this with a couple of weeks BOGIOF notice so dont come anymore.

The clubs argument will be that's how market forces work.

Those who want to book 10 seats together and want specific days booked will be better off doing so well in advance at the inflated price, just like airline seats.

Those who can afford to wait and wait (mainly locals who don't mind going on their own or with 1 or 2 local mates or their kid or their father) can do so and probably pick up a ticket at a price that is not inflated.

Im not sure whether thats necessarily a bad thing now either, when you factor in weather, your own circumstances and the 'excitement level' of the series, for those who live within the West Midlands who can get to the game at the drop of a hat
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#85
When I buy my cheap airline tickets I tend to buy them well in advance to get best price. :thumbup:

Anyway Test Cricket attendances will mirror many other places around the world within two to three years................ thats how market forces work................. and you cant buck the market :fishing:
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#86
Core test match watchers will go whatever the price,where the strategy has gone wrong is that the powers that be are failing to realise is that a big percentage of people that turn up for a day's test cricket are not really there to watch it as such,its more a social day out with friends with a passing interest in the play on the pitch,these are the biggest percentage of people they have lost...because it is just too expensive now with drinks/food/travel costs.
I have mentioned before that I had a day at the test match for years in a group of 10+,and I know other blokes that do not go anymore for the same reason,out of the group I used to go with there is only me and another bloke that watch county cricket...says it all really.I agree with WB on this one that test cricket in this country is due for..to use a market term..a correction.
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#87
Good morning all.

I’ve kept my powder dry this week – enjoying a well-earned break from work but having read this thread through felt I had to add my twopennorth.

I have to say that I find such naivety as reported in the local press and heard on TMS from such a hard-nosed businessman as Povey to be almost touching.

Test cricket has never – repeat never – been especially well-supported by South Asian immigrants in this country. Even back in the 70’s it was only the Windies that drew the support from their first and second generation immigrant population. Indian and Pakistan supporters were never particularly evident in the grounds then. Their numbers began to increase when first India, then Pakistan pulled off WC wins. Since then their support has been mainly for one-day cricket.

Let us not also forget that the 10000+ crowds that came in for the 2 T20 internationals were also encouraged by last minute BOGOFs that had to be brought in a couple of weeks out from those games because ticket sales were sluggish.

How Povey and his team can possibly believe that circulating a few flyers around the central mosque could possibly entice in those same supporters at £60 a pop for the test match, when history tells us they’ve rarely attended before is beyond me.

We ended an unbroken run of 26 years attendance at international cricket at Edgbaston this year for one reason and one reason only – price. Since the mid-90s we have attended the first 4 days of every test played in Birmingham.

For 2009 we swallowed the eye-watering Ashes prices because we figured this would be a one-off expense for a “marquee” series that the club could probably sell 3 times over. We didn’t like it but we paid out. On a joint membership that cost us £520 with £130 of that refunded for the loss of the Saturday.

This year we’d have been looking at £480 to watch opposition that – bowling attack apart - is currently vying with Bangladesh for the title of worst test team. Much as I love test cricket – and I really do love it – I could not possibly see any justification for this kind of outlay so my Sky subscription got a full workout last weekend instead.

Now I fully accept that the club – having been forced into this ridiculous test match bidding arms race – has to raise its money from somewhere and that blame can be handed out equally to both the club and ECB. But sure as eggs is eggs you cannot fool all the people all the time. Cricket supporters aren’t stupid. They know the value of what they are asked to pay for and if they think the price is too high they will keep their money in their pockets.

Same goes for T20 prices, memberships etc. It strikes me there has been a total detachment from reality amongst the senior management team at Edgbaston and that under Povey’s aegis a narrative has to be trotted out to justify falling crowds. Thus we had Wednesday starts to blame for the poor attendance against SA, too many games caused the fall-off in T20 attendances and now 2 T20s for Pakistan cut into the potential attendance for this year’s test match. It’s akin to the “dog ate my homework” argument and it’s absolute b******s!


And although I have great admiration for GD’s musings I find his almost total acceptance of the narrative spun out by Povey very perplexing. We are now into the endgame of redevelopment and servicing a huge £30m debt yet every financial projection that has been made by Povey has been undershot. Yet GD trots out an almost implausibly upbeat assessment of Povey’s reign. I’m with WTB on this one. Sad to say I believe this club is headed for financial ruin under this man’s watch and I find it not a little upsetting that no-one senior inside the club is able to see it.
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Leicester Exile, Mad Brummie, Warleybear
#88
HHBear: I reckon you are incorrect in your assumption about the "core" buying tickets regardless of the price. Between 1997 and 2002, I saw every day of TM & ODI cricket. Then had to drop out because of bad health, came back in 2004 for the last day of the WI test then 1 day of the Sri Lanka match. After being ripped of there with a similar situation to the Ashes test last year I decided enough is enough and have not been back; everyone has limits as to what they will accept. Mine have been breached with international cricket and with the ridiculous membership fee it seems that I am now lost to the club. (Their loss not mine as I go to other venues to see my cricket now).

Kim: How the hell can Povey come out with a crass comment like that about people not being put off by the price. As the ignorant man never talks to anyone who is not on the stafff how would he know what any of his customers or potential customers (the people who keep him in a job) think?

DaveC: The problem is that Povey will not care about the club, as by then he will have moved on to the next botch up. From what I have heard he was un-popular at Northampton Rugby, and we have / are finding out why. He seems to have no concept of the idea that if you run a business you need to have customers.
"Kevin and myself would get on much better if Kevin kept hs mouth shut." - Graeme Smith on Kevin Pietersen (June 2008)
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#89
I don't wish to stir up the past (well, only a little bit) and get too much on an anti-Povey rant but does anyone know why he left his job as Chief Executive at Carlsberg in 2004? An announcement at the time said:
"Lars Fellman, senior vice-president and chairman of the board of directors at Carlsberg, has been promoted to chief executive of Carlsberg UK. He will replace Colin Povey, who has headed the company since 2001, but is now leaving. It is not known whether Povey has another job to go to."
When someone leaves a job without another one to go to, it usually means that they have left under a cloud. There was about an 18 month gap from when he left Carlsberg and when he joined us. I know he was a non-executive director at Northampton when he joined us but that's not really a "proper" job.
Anyway, just curious!
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#90
(13-08-2010, 05:44 PM)Lofty Wrote: HHBear: I reckon you are incorrect in your assumption about the "core" buying tickets regardless of the price. Between 1997 and 2002, I saw every day of TM & ODI cricket. Then had to drop out because of bad health, came back in 2004 for the last day of the WI test then 1 day of the Sri Lanka match. After being ripped of there with a similar situation to the Ashes test last year I decided enough is enough and have not been back; everyone has limits as to what they will accept. Mine have been breached with international cricket and with the ridiculous membership fee it seems that I am now lost to the club. (Their loss not mine as I go to other venues to see my cricket now).

Kim: How the hell can Povey come out with a crass comment like that about people not being put off by the price. As the ignorant man never talks to anyone who is not on the stafff how would he know what any of his customers or potential customers (the people who keep him in a job) think?

DaveC: The problem is that Povey will not care about the club, as by then he will have moved on to the next botch up. From what I have heard he was un-popular at Northampton Rugby, and we have / are finding out why. He seems to have no concept of the idea that if you run a business you need to have customers.
Hi Lofty,
there will always be a core that go to test matches regardless,but even that core is shrinking...but as you state in your reasons,which I agree with you 100%,everyone has a cut-off point when it comes to cost,(I am one of them)but in terms of the type of punter that has been lost the biggest ratio has to be the "once a year day out test match man"and that is exactly the type of punter test match cricket needs to fill grounds-the ticket price strategy has managed to shoot itself in both feet and alienate and lose both types of people that would spend their hard-earned on test cricket.
Blue sky thinking there the powers that be.
As long as Sky bankroll cricket the whole rotten structure will stay afloat,if test cricket went back to terrestrial T.V it would be interesting to see how the counties would survive and how test matches prices would be pitched..methinks back to £15/30 a ticket.
Herr Povey thinks we have been watching cricket on the cheap...but in relation to how many people have been lost to watching cricket "live" over the last 5 years,he is just another suit flogging an over-priced product.
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#91
I have written to CP regarding the new price structure for next season and within a week I have received a reply.

I had previously argued that raising the JBs from £25 to £50 would stop them joining and becoming life long Warks supporters. He disagreed on the grounds that they offered excellent value for money. He now advises they have reduced the price for next season back to £25 "to encourage new fans to the game". Precisely my point.

I raised the matter of a student rate for under 25s as from the age of 17 the price rises from £25 to £200. He advises they will be offering full time students a 50% reduction on "on the gate" prices. He does not realise that loses the loyalty factor of being a member. It does not solve the low paid/unemployed youngster.

As for us wrinklies I felt a 70% increase between City and Pavilion membership for unfair compared to the much smaller difference for full and family members. The argument is we watch more cricket for our money and up to now it has been "substantially discounted". I think it will only be a few years before the reduction for being over 60 will be minimal.

The argument from the club's point of view appears to be the fact they provide excellent value for money. This I would not disagree with - including £50 for JBs and even £50/£60 for a day out at a test match. However it overlooks factors like people have a limited amount to spend on leisure activities and there are plenty of alternative ways to spend our money. Also with cricket any reduction in play due to the weather is not met with a refund except for the very limited big match facility.

Cricket generally needs to realise that pricing is not based on "value for money" but on a comparison with other activities and quite simply "what people are prepared to pay". 16000 in the ground paying £30 has to be more profitable than 8000 paying £60 because of the additional spending on food and drink.

Having said all that I do appreciate the fact that our CE takes the time to reply in detail even if it is not the reply one wants. All I would say is make the "complaint" constructive and polite and I am sure you will get a reply.
LE - aka John
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#92
A small example of why the student jump is a problem form a poster on another site:

"Was looking at joining Warwicks as, results permitting, I'll be at the University of Birmingham up to mid June 2011. £165 to still not get the full members' facilities makes me think I'll just pay £27 to renew my young persons membership at Notts and enjoy TB in July and August."

LE - isnt "value for money" in the eye of the beholder? Colin has always taken this view as ensconced in his unfortunate "cricket on the cheap " comment on his debut. If the club see a 60 quid ticket for an England/Pakistan match as value for money but the entire Pakistani community doesnt, its not value for money.

Im not sure he had ever quite got the concept that, for a lot of people, membership isnt all about the discount involved.
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#93
Mr. Povey offers "tickets at popular prices"; and when challenged says: "well, I like them!"
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#94
(14-08-2010, 09:14 AM)Leicester Exile Wrote: I have written to CP regarding the new price structure for next season and within a week I have received a reply.

I had previously argued that raising the JBs from £25 to £50 would stop them joining and becoming life long Warks supporters. He disagreed on the grounds that they offered excellent value for money. He now advises they have reduced the price for next season back to £25 "to encourage new fans to the game". Precisely my point.

I raised the matter of a student rate for under 25s as from the age of 17 the price rises from £25 to £200. He advises they will be offering full time students a 50% reduction on "on the gate" prices. He does not realise that loses the loyalty factor of being a member. It does not solve the low paid/unemployed youngster.

As for us wrinklies I felt a 70% increase between City and Pavilion membership for unfair compared to the much smaller difference for full and family members. The argument is we watch more cricket for our money and up to now it has been "substantially discounted". I think it will only be a few years before the reduction for being over 60 will be minimal.

The argument from the club's point of view appears to be the fact they provide excellent value for money. This I would not disagree with - including £50 for JBs and even £50/£60 for a day out at a test match. However it overlooks factors like people have a limited amount to spend on leisure activities and there are plenty of alternative ways to spend our money. Also with cricket any reduction in play due to the weather is not met with a refund except for the very limited big match facility.

Cricket generally needs to realise that pricing is not based on "value for money" but on a comparison with other activities and quite simply "what people are prepared to pay". 16000 in the ground paying £30 has to be more profitable than 8000 paying £60 because of the additional spending on food and drink.

Having said all that I do appreciate the fact that our CE takes the time to reply in detail even if it is not the reply one wants. All I would say is make the "complaint" constructive and polite and I am sure you will get a reply.

You have to give Mr.Povey credit for his reply,he has a job to do,generate income for Warks and I can understand how he pitches the price of tickets/membership in accordance to other venues and what he perceives as market value...but the bottom line is it still too expensive for most people,cricket is losing its core/casual attendees at a fair rate as WB stated in a previous post test match attendances will mirror other countries in a few years and with all these new developments to finance if Sky ever decide to pull the plug...I think the days of full attendance at test matches are gone,once people stop watching any sport,footy,rugby etc...you wont get them back.
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#95
Compared to a lot of things £60 for a whole day of entertainment cricket is good value for money. However, its the fact that people have only got a limited amount to spend and cricket has to compete with those other attractions. PLUS with all those other attractions - football, rugby, pop concerts etc you know you will see what you have paid for. With cricket you may get to see a rushed 25.1 overs or a 16 over match instead of 40 overs (as at TB this week) or 5 overs game instead of 20 a side. And if there is no insurance scheme in force eg CC don't even think you will get a refund even if a ball is not bowled.
I remember buying a ticket for the bowl out game against Kent in '94 and being told by trhe ECB that no refund would be given because that's the way it has always been for over 100 years. It was only when I threatened to take them to the Small Claims Court that they relented and gave me ticket for the next round.
LE - aka John
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#96
I've just applied for 6 year membership deal which at £1000 is excellent value. Comment in Wisden about £200 membership at Edgbaston for the Pavilion conveniently failed to mention that unlike most clubs it still includes 20/20s - which even at the higher price makes it a good deal when compared to most clubs.
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#97
True Stingray...there are many clubs out there who do not offer 20/20 as part of their membership package.
£1000 for 6 years is excellent value and if i could afford it then i would jump at the chance to purchase one.

As for the test match tickets...wait till the test at the Oval start and see how they have to cope with the lack of £90 seats sold!!
I've already had an email from TwelthMan offering untold discounts on all remaining Internationals that are due to be played.
I'm a horrid bint.....apparently!
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#98
i will be purchasing a 6 year membership in January its a bargain for them that can afford to get it,
for it works out at just over £166 a year with no increases for 6 years, and all the cricket you want to see, and access to the new pavilion, i would be mad not too.
Keep Calm i am a Warwickshire Bear
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#99
These are excellent prices over the next 6 seasons and as you say a must have for those that can afford to lay out the lump sum up front.
LE - aka John
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Expanding on my post earlier I have always felt the price of membership, assuming one can get to around 20 days cricket has always been very good value for money especially as pointed out it includes T20. However, my "gripe" is the imbalance between City and Pavilion membership for Seniors compared to Full and Family. Also I do feel there should be a half way membership for the under 25s or 21s especially if they have been JBs and are suddenly faced with a massive rise in membership. And of course we have the pricing policy for the big games with the BOGOFs coming after many loyal members have paid the full price.

With the 6 year membership a Senior Pavilion member saves £70 compared to a Full Member saving £200. That seems a little unfair to usfixed income members.
LE - aka John
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